All Things Audio -- topics from 2002 thru 2004

Brad Carrier · October 7th, 2003, 08:05 AM

Can anyone tell me what the difference is between these two receivers? I have a line on a good used 400 but I can afford a new 500 if need be.

Don Bloom · October 7th, 2003, 01:30 PM

I use 2 of the 500UDR units and love them. I really don't know the difference between the 400 and the 500 but I'm guessing it has to be very very minor. Edward T. uses the 400 series I believe and he loves his, so whatever the differences they gotta be small.

Don

Marco Leavitt · October 8th, 2003, 11:17 AM

Anybody know? I had thought they were supposed to have brought the 744T and 722 hard disk recorders to market by now. I wonder if all these inexpensive MP3 recorders out there have made them rethink the market.

Marco Leavitt · October 8th, 2003, 11:21 AM

Just found the answer to my own question. Now they're talking Q1 2004. They've apparently made a major redesign to the system.

Alan Tran · October 10th, 2003, 11:56 AM

Has anyone had any expirience with this mic?

Jarek Gorz · October 13th, 2003, 06:33 PM

I'm Using AZDEN 500UDR reciver. My question is:
Can I use more then one TRANSMITTER?

right now i only use AZDEN 41BT bodypack transmitter.

Don Bloom · October 13th, 2003, 07:14 PM

There are 2 ways to use more than 1 transmitter, but ones mot the best.
1)you COULD have the little screwdriver in your hand and make the switch on the reciever when you need the 2nd transmitter to rbe received but I really don't suggest that. It's far too easy to miss the frequency, miss the timing or have some other disaster happen, so that brings us to number 2) get a 2nd receiver and if need be a mixer or something like the Studio1 BP XLR aduio adapter.

Cost a little more but well worth the peace of mind.

BTW, I forgot my 2nd receiver 1 time and tried method 1, needless to say I haven't forgotten my 2nd receiver since.

Don

Betsy Moore · October 17th, 2003, 04:23 PM

We're going to shoot a no-budget film in a cabin next month--and I'm trying to get the most reasonable sound I can for a small amount of money.

The camera is an HD-1, which has great picture but supposedly lousy audio inputs--DAT recorders are out of my price range but a friend of ours is donating a mini-disc recorder, which according to some sources is a reasonable second choice. This leaves the shotgun.

I looked on B&H where they have an AT815b Line/Gradient Shotgun Condenser Microphone on sale for 279.00 (reg. 399). In addition they have a used At815a condenser microphone for sale for 199. Does anyone know if this is basically the same model?

In your opinions, would either of these models provide good enough sound for a project that, in the best possible fantasy scenario would be shown in festival and commercial theatres?

Thanks for any advice:)

Don Donatello · October 20th, 2003, 10:43 AM

why not rent a mic ?

for the miniDisc i would rent a XLR box for it - much easier to set volume levels. all XLR cables plug into box then mini stereo cable from box to miniDisc .... also use FILM slate at heads of every shot ..if over 5 min take i would also tail slate ...

the 815 is a long shotgun = works good outdoors but so so indoors - forget using in a bathroom ... so depending on your project ?

i use short shotgun 90% of the time indoors/outdoors

guide on AT mic's
http://www.equipmentemporium.com/atmics.htm

intro to shotgun mic's
http://www.equipmentemporium.com/selectin.htm

using boom intro
http://www.equipmentemporium.com/introto.htm

general sound for DV
http://www.equipmentemporium.com/audiohi8.htm

Boyd Ostroff · October 25th, 2003, 09:33 PM

I just "discovered" something which may be completely obvious to many of you, but might also be helpful to others that are less experienced (like me! ;-). I've just started editing a lot of performance video that I shot with my PDX-10. For audio channel 1 I used a feed from the house board which consisted of mikes on the proscenium and orchestra pit. I used the on-camera mono microphone on channel 2.

Now since I was shooting at the rear of the house, about 100 feet from the stage, there is a very noticeable delay between the audio on channels 1 and 2, caused by the time it took the sound to travel over 100 feet. It sounds a little disconcerting, and I was wondering if I should even use channel 2 in the mix or just go with the mono audio from channel 1.

Then it occured to me that all I needed to do to get the two channels in sync was to delay the audio on channel 2. IIRC, sound travels around 750 mph and audio people like to round that off to about 1 millisecond per foot. Each video frame is about 33 milliseconds, so if you do the math it works out to around 3 frames offset between my audio tracks at a 100 foot distance. So in FCP I shifted the video track and the audio track 1 forward by 3 frames and voila... they were in sync. After a little fiddling I actually decided I liked the way it sounded better with only a 2 frame offset. I blended the two channels together in different proportions and ended up with something that sounded pretty good.

Anyway, just thought this might be helpful to someone else in the same situation where each audio channel is fed from mikes that are at different distances from the performers.

Gints Klimanis · October 25th, 2003, 10:41 PM

Good observation. It would be better to go with a pure delay (no feedback) effect that would allow a higher delay resolution. The effect of adding two audio signals when one is delayed has both a significant transient and steady-state response. Above a certain amount of roughly 20 mS, the two signal are perceived as echos. This is the transient response. Below that amount, usually only the coloration is heard. For any delay amount, there will be a steady state coloration caused by a series of uniformly spaced notches in the frequency response. The longer the delay, the lower the spacing of the notches. For a one sample delay, the effect is a mild (single zero, -6dB/octave attenuation) low pass filter. It's important to listen to both sharp sounds and steady state sounds, in addition to comparing the stereo field. Varying the delay amount will trade off one echo perception, coloration, stereo field. This may help explain why you preferred the sound of two frames even though three was closer to your physical setup.

Stephen Sobel · October 27th, 2003, 05:58 PM

I just got the DM-50 mic for my GL2 camcorder. I know the windsock is appropriate when I'm outside. Should I use it as a manner of course when videotaping indoors as well? Specifically middle school basketball and choir concerts?

G. Lee Gordon · October 31st, 2003, 05:19 PM

I need some advice on a good Lav Mic setup. I was considering Senheisser (excuse my spelling but you know what I mean), but a vidoegrapher friend of mine told me to check out the Audio Technica?

Mike Rehmus · October 31st, 2003, 11:30 PM

Where are you going to use them? General use or movies or?

Tram, Sony, AT, Senn, and others make good ones. But they all apply better in some situations than others.

Adam Kay · November 1st, 2003, 12:48 PM

ive noticed a lot of camcorders have either 12 bit 4channel or 16 bit 2 channel. my question is this is it possible on some camcorders to use the 12 bit mode and have 2 stereo mics? either by having one as the built in mic and one external plugged into the mic socket or 2 external.

October 7th, 2003, 08:05 AM	#151
Brad Carrier Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Greenville, TX Posts: 69	Azden 400UDR vs. 500UDR??? Can anyone tell me what the difference is between these two receivers? I have a line on a good used 400 but I can afford a new 500 if need be.

October 8th, 2003, 11:17 AM	#153
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	What's up with SoundDevices recorders? Anybody know? I had thought they were supposed to have brought the 744T and 722 hard disk recorders to market by now. I wonder if all these inexpensive MP3 recorders out there have made them rethink the market.

October 10th, 2003, 11:56 AM	#155
Alan Tran Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 121	Shure VP88 Has anyone had any expirience with this mic?

October 13th, 2003, 06:33 PM	#156
Jarek Gorz New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: mt prospect, il Posts: 6	Wireless Mic I'm Using AZDEN 500UDR reciver. My question is: Can I use more then one TRANSMITTER? right now i only use AZDEN 41BT bodypack transmitter.

October 17th, 2003, 04:23 PM	#158
Betsy Moore Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 444	mics for no budget video feature We're going to shoot a no-budget film in a cabin next month--and I'm trying to get the most reasonable sound I can for a small amount of money. The camera is an HD-1, which has great picture but supposedly lousy audio inputs--DAT recorders are out of my price range but a friend of ours is donating a mini-disc recorder, which according to some sources is a reasonable second choice. This leaves the shotgun. I looked on B&H where they have an AT815b Line/Gradient Shotgun Condenser Microphone on sale for 279.00 (reg. 399). In addition they have a used At815a condenser microphone for sale for 199. Does anyone know if this is basically the same model? In your opinions, would either of these models provide good enough sound for a project that, in the best possible fantasy scenario would be shown in festival and commercial theatres? Thanks for any advice:)

October 7th, 2003, 01:30 PM	#152
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	I use 2 of the 500UDR units and love them. I really don't know the difference between the 400 and the 500 but I'm guessing it has to be very very minor. Edward T. uses the 400 series I believe and he loves his, so whatever the differences they gotta be small. Don

October 8th, 2003, 11:21 AM	#154
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Just found the answer to my own question. Now they're talking Q1 2004. They've apparently made a major redesign to the system.

October 13th, 2003, 07:14 PM	#157
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	There are 2 ways to use more than 1 transmitter, but ones mot the best. 1)you COULD have the little screwdriver in your hand and make the switch on the reciever when you need the 2nd transmitter to rbe received but I really don't suggest that. It's far too easy to miss the frequency, miss the timing or have some other disaster happen, so that brings us to number 2) get a 2nd receiver and if need be a mixer or something like the Studio1 BP XLR aduio adapter. Cost a little more but well worth the peace of mind. BTW, I forgot my 2nd receiver 1 time and tried method 1, needless to say I haven't forgotten my 2nd receiver since. Don

October 20th, 2003, 10:43 AM	#159
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	why not rent a mic ? for the miniDisc i would rent a XLR box for it - much easier to set volume levels. all XLR cables plug into box then mini stereo cable from box to miniDisc .... also use FILM slate at heads of every shot ..if over 5 min take i would also tail slate ... the 815 is a long shotgun = works good outdoors but so so indoors - forget using in a bathroom ... so depending on your project ? i use short shotgun 90% of the time indoors/outdoors guide on AT mic's http://www.equipmentemporium.com/atmics.htm intro to shotgun mic's http://www.equipmentemporium.com/selectin.htm using boom intro http://www.equipmentemporium.com/introto.htm general sound for DV http://www.equipmentemporium.com/audiohi8.htm

October 25th, 2003, 09:33 PM	#160
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,801	audio delay I just "discovered" something which may be completely obvious to many of you, but might also be helpful to others that are less experienced (like me! ;-). I've just started editing a lot of performance video that I shot with my PDX-10. For audio channel 1 I used a feed from the house board which consisted of mikes on the proscenium and orchestra pit. I used the on-camera mono microphone on channel 2. Now since I was shooting at the rear of the house, about 100 feet from the stage, there is a very noticeable delay between the audio on channels 1 and 2, caused by the time it took the sound to travel over 100 feet. It sounds a little disconcerting, and I was wondering if I should even use channel 2 in the mix or just go with the mono audio from channel 1. Then it occured to me that all I needed to do to get the two channels in sync was to delay the audio on channel 2. IIRC, sound travels around 750 mph and audio people like to round that off to about 1 millisecond per foot. Each video frame is about 33 milliseconds, so if you do the math it works out to around 3 frames offset between my audio tracks at a 100 foot distance. So in FCP I shifted the video track and the audio track 1 forward by 3 frames and voila... they were in sync. After a little fiddling I actually decided I liked the way it sounded better with only a 2 frame offset. I blended the two channels together in different proportions and ended up with something that sounded pretty good. Anyway, just thought this might be helpful to someone else in the same situation where each audio channel is fed from mikes that are at different distances from the performers.

October 25th, 2003, 10:41 PM	#161
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	Good observation. It would be better to go with a pure delay (no feedback) effect that would allow a higher delay resolution. The effect of adding two audio signals when one is delayed has both a significant transient and steady-state response. Above a certain amount of roughly 20 mS, the two signal are perceived as echos. This is the transient response. Below that amount, usually only the coloration is heard. For any delay amount, there will be a steady state coloration caused by a series of uniformly spaced notches in the frequency response. The longer the delay, the lower the spacing of the notches. For a one sample delay, the effect is a mild (single zero, -6dB/octave attenuation) low pass filter. It's important to listen to both sharp sounds and steady state sounds, in addition to comparing the stereo field. Varying the delay amount will trade off one echo perception, coloration, stereo field. This may help explain why you preferred the sound of two frames even though three was closer to your physical setup.

October 27th, 2003, 05:58 PM	#162
Stephen Sobel Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 408	DM-50 question I just got the DM-50 mic for my GL2 camcorder. I know the windsock is appropriate when I'm outside. Should I use it as a manner of course when videotaping indoors as well? Specifically middle school basketball and choir concerts?

October 31st, 2003, 05:19 PM	#163
G. Lee Gordon Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 431	LAV. Mic's I need some advice on a good Lav Mic setup. I was considering Senheisser (excuse my spelling but you know what I mean), but a vidoegrapher friend of mine told me to check out the Audio Technica?

October 31st, 2003, 11:30 PM	#164
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Where are you going to use them? General use or movies or? Tram, Sony, AT, Senn, and others make good ones. But they all apply better in some situations than others. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

November 1st, 2003, 12:48 PM	#165
Adam Kay New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 6	newbie question ive noticed a lot of camcorders have either 12 bit 4channel or 16 bit 2 channel. my question is this is it possible on some camcorders to use the 12 bit mode and have 2 stereo mics? either by having one as the built in mic and one external plugged into the mic socket or 2 external.