Need a new indoor mic (but it gets complicated)

Ty Ford · January 6th, 2006, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

If you compare, please let me know the results. I also own a K6 ME66 and am looking for a better indoor alternative. Ideally it should also fit my rycote softie mount. So I am very eager to hear about your test results.

Hi Tom,

What do you NOT like about what you already have?

Regards,

Ty Ford

Marco Leavitt · January 6th, 2006, 07:54 AM

The ME64 is miles better than ME66 indoors, but you have to get it really, really close. It's no substitute for the MK41 though. The AKG CK93 would be a huge improvement over the ME64 as well.

Thomas Richter · January 6th, 2006, 09:51 PM

The problem with Sennheiser ME66 I had was mainly that the shotgun pattern (hypercardioid, lobar, or whatever is the exact terminology for this mic) is sensitive to noise coming from right behind the mic. When the ceiling is low, I get some reflections that adversely affect the sound (sounds a little bit like recorded in a big metal box, somewhat "tinny").

I have read in this forum that a cardioid patter may be better in small rooms with low ceilings as it is less prone to picking up reflections from the ceiling.

Apart from that, I really love the mike. I had a beyerdynamic before (which had better test results) but I didn't like it as much. Mics like the AT4053a etc. may sound better but they are out of my pricerange.

Marco, how close? Close like 20 inch or 8 inch? Thanks.

Marco Leavitt · January 6th, 2006, 11:25 PM

I like the ME66 too, although it gets kind of a bad rap in here. It is not an indoor mic at all though. Keep the ME64 under two feet from the speaker if you can. It's kind of an odd mic. At further distances, intelligibility is still good (that's why I love it on camera), but the room's reverberation becomes kind of intrusive. These are usually two mutually exclusive things.

Thomas Richter · January 7th, 2006, 07:41 PM

Thanks for the advice. I would usually be less than 2 feet from the subject on indoors scenes.
So the ME64 is fine, but the AKG CK93 system is better (though at twice the price if you already own a K6) - to summarise the low end options (and stay within the topic of the thread).

Ty Ford · January 7th, 2006, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

The problem with Sennheiser ME66 I had was mainly that the shotgun pattern (hypercardioid, lobar, or whatever is the exact terminology for this mic) is sensitive to noise coming from right behind the mic. When the ceiling is low, I get some reflections that adversely affect the sound (sounds a little bit like recorded in a big metal box, somewhat "tinny").

Tom, At the risk of sounding exasperated because I keep saying this..:)
THAT'S ONE OF THE BAD THINGS THAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU USE A SHOTGUN INDOORS.

The Sennheiser shotgun, as pretty much every shotgun I know of, is a supercardioid.

[QUOTE=
I have read in this forum that a cardioid patter may be better in small rooms with low ceilings as it is less prone to picking up reflections from the ceiling.

Apart from that, I really love the mike. I had a beyerdynamic before (which had better test results) but I didn't like it as much. Mics like the AT4053a etc. may sound better but they are out of my pricerange.

Marco, how close? Close like 20 inch or 8 inch? Thanks.[/QUOTE]

No you want a hypercardioid for interiors, not a cardioid. If you can't afford a 4053, which is a fair but not a world class hypercardioid, there are several other hypercardioids, but they all sound worse than the 4053a.

There is a hyper from Rode, but I haven't heard it yet.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Thomas Richter · January 8th, 2006, 06:18 PM

Sorry, my mistake. I meant to say hypercardioid, as opposed to the ME66 which is supercardioid (= lobar?). So this probably also means the ME64 is no good as its cardioid?

English is not my first language so I sometimes muddle up the technical terms up translating both ways ;-)

Thanks for all the help, I start to understand better why the sound I record sounds like it does.

Barry Rivadue · January 8th, 2006, 07:34 PM

I'm the one who bought that discarded Sanken CS-1, and overall I've been quite pleased with it in mostly interior situations.

Ty Ford · January 8th, 2006, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Richter

Sorry, my mistake. I meant to say hypercardioid, as opposed to the ME66 which is supercardioid (= lobar?). So this probably also means the ME64 is no good as its cardioid?

English is not my first language so I sometimes muddle up the technical terms up translating both ways ;-)

Thanks for all the help, I start to understand better why the sound I record sounds like it does.

Tom,

Could have fooled me. You write as well as most people here.

I made a little mp4 video you might find useful. Go to my site, go to the Article Archive, go to the video folder, download the mic tutorial mp4 video. plug in good headphones or play back over good monitors.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Marco Leavitt · January 9th, 2006, 07:36 AM

Thomas,
Cardiods can do pretty well in interiors, better than a shotgun anyway. There is a hypercardiod available for the K6 system, the ME65, but I've never encountered anyone either on or offline with experience with that mic. The CK93 I mentioned is a hypercardiod. There is also a cardiod for the system (Blueline), the CK91. You mentioned that a CK93 (or AT4053) is twice as much money as simply buying another K6 cap. I would say that the sound would be more than twice as good, but if switching to AKG or AudioTechnica is not in the budget I think you'll still be pretty happy with the ME64. Just my two cents.

January 6th, 2006, 07:54 AM	#17
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	The ME64 is miles better than ME66 indoors, but you have to get it really, really close. It's no substitute for the MK41 though. The AKG CK93 would be a huge improvement over the ME64 as well.

January 6th, 2006, 09:51 PM	#18
Thomas Richter Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 181	The problem with Sennheiser ME66 I had was mainly that the shotgun pattern (hypercardioid, lobar, or whatever is the exact terminology for this mic) is sensitive to noise coming from right behind the mic. When the ceiling is low, I get some reflections that adversely affect the sound (sounds a little bit like recorded in a big metal box, somewhat "tinny"). I have read in this forum that a cardioid patter may be better in small rooms with low ceilings as it is less prone to picking up reflections from the ceiling. Apart from that, I really love the mike. I had a beyerdynamic before (which had better test results) but I didn't like it as much. Mics like the AT4053a etc. may sound better but they are out of my pricerange. Marco, how close? Close like 20 inch or 8 inch? Thanks.

January 6th, 2006, 11:25 PM	#19
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	I like the ME66 too, although it gets kind of a bad rap in here. It is not an indoor mic at all though. Keep the ME64 under two feet from the speaker if you can. It's kind of an odd mic. At further distances, intelligibility is still good (that's why I love it on camera), but the room's reverberation becomes kind of intrusive. These are usually two mutually exclusive things.

January 7th, 2006, 07:41 PM	#20
Thomas Richter Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 181	Thanks for the advice. I would usually be less than 2 feet from the subject on indoors scenes. So the ME64 is fine, but the AKG CK93 system is better (though at twice the price if you already own a K6) - to summarise the low end options (and stay within the topic of the thread).

January 8th, 2006, 06:18 PM	#22
Thomas Richter Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Frankfurt, Germany Posts: 181	Sorry, my mistake. I meant to say hypercardioid, as opposed to the ME66 which is supercardioid (= lobar?). So this probably also means the ME64 is no good as its cardioid? English is not my first language so I sometimes muddle up the technical terms up translating both ways ;-) Thanks for all the help, I start to understand better why the sound I record sounds like it does.

January 8th, 2006, 07:34 PM	#23
Barry Rivadue Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 508	I'm the one who bought that discarded Sanken CS-1, and overall I've been quite pleased with it in mostly interior situations.

January 9th, 2006, 07:36 AM	#25
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Thomas, Cardiods can do pretty well in interiors, better than a shotgun anyway. There is a hypercardiod available for the K6 system, the ME65, but I've never encountered anyone either on or offline with experience with that mic. The CK93 I mentioned is a hypercardiod. There is also a cardiod for the system (Blueline), the CK91. You mentioned that a CK93 (or AT4053) is twice as much money as simply buying another K6 cap. I would say that the sound would be more than twice as good, but if switching to AKG or AudioTechnica is not in the budget I think you'll still be pretty happy with the ME64. Just my two cents.