Composing Orchestral Music

Jos Svendsen · December 26th, 2005, 06:36 AM

If you are a passive musician - meaning that you know what you like to hear, but have no musical abilities - then Musigenesis (http://www.musigenesis.com/) can be a posibility.

The programs generates music, and lets you choose the bits you like. Based on your selections the program will elvolve the music further to your taste.

I've tried it, but you have to have plenty of time and patience in order to get good results. Acid was faster for me. But Musigenesis can get you some music with a sort of - well marsian feeling to it.

So I use it when I need music that sounds different

John Rofrano · December 26th, 2005, 11:07 AM

You might want to take a look at Garritan Personal Orchestra. It has individual samples of an entire orchestra in single and ensemble modes (both wet and dry). This is a VSTi instrument that plugs into a multi-track application like ACID, Sonar, Cubase, etc. (I use it in ACID). I believe Reason is a closed system (no VST/VSTi support) so you’re going to be very limited with orchestral sounds by staying with that application.

~jr

Roy Sallows · December 26th, 2005, 12:53 PM

I had several, but the old laptop (IBM) crashed and burned spectacularly - the little ninety-degree power connection, where the wall-wart adapter plugged into the main circuit board - shorted out. Poof. A crackle and awful silence. But BIAB is one heck of a program. My intention was to see if the MIDI files could be read by a sequencer with a better selection of sounds - the string and brass sounds were tinny and not accurate. But in checking out the site recently, I previewed the new Roland software synth and it sounds pretty darned good.

Josef Heks · December 29th, 2005, 07:51 PM

Personally I have a bit of a problem with programes like Musicgenius. Being a musician myself, it sort of seems like cheating to use a program which creates music - that said, im sure u have a lot of creative control, but i prefer the method of creating every note and having total control. Thanks for all the suggestions everyone, theve been very helpful...looks like i may have to move on from Reason *sigh*!

Roy Sallows · January 7th, 2006, 11:47 AM

BIAB doesn't replace musical talent. You can write as much of the real music as you want. For example, write a melody, then select a style - classical, bluegrass, whatever... (there are about 1500 styles if I remember correctly) ...and BIAB will supply all the backing you need - bass, drums, guitar, keyboards, orchestral, etc. - in that style, and around your melody.
It can also write a lead on the instrument of your choice (keyboards are best) that compliments your melody. It can also create harmonies in about a hundred different styles and voices.
You can write, in various notations, for every one of the voices supported by the program, up to and including a drum track with umpteen different sounds (I never bothered with it, because what the program came up with was cool).
In short, BIAB can be a great tool for any musician, whether gifted with ability or saddled by ineptitude.

Tony Hall · January 14th, 2006, 09:12 PM

I downloaded a trial of Band in a Box and played around with it a bit. I'm not certain of the quality though. I guess I could give it a shot since it's so cheap.

I'm in the same situation as many of you. I want to score my own soundtrack, but the choices out there are a bit overwhelming.

I've looked at Acid and Sound Forge... I'm not sure what the difference between the two is... I'm not exactly sure what they do.

I know Acid loops sounds, but do you have to buy the sounds that you loop?

I'd like to know what product for the PC is comparable to Garageband on a mac.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 14th, 2006, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Hall

I downloaded a trial of Band in a Box and played around with it a bit. I'm not certain of the quality though. I guess I could give it a shot since it's so cheap.

I'm in the same situation as many of you. I want to score my own soundtrack, but the choices out there are a bit overwhelming.

I've looked at Acid and Sound Forge... I'm not sure what the difference between the two is... I'm not exactly sure what they do.

I know Acid loops sounds, but do you have to buy the sounds that you loop?

I'd like to know what product for the PC is comparable to Garageband on a mac.

Sound Forge is a mastering/surgical audio tool, whereas ACID is like Garageband. In fact, GarageBand was entirely inspired by ACID. You get thousands of loops with ACID when you buy it, and you can literally find thousands more for free on the web, with around 6 million sounds available in various libraries. (I have a 2TB RAID of loops)
It's much easier than you'd think to create good music in ACID. Look for the "Instant ACID" book from Iacobus and John Rofrano for great tips on how to use it best.

Mark Utley · January 15th, 2006, 01:08 AM

How come no one has mentioned Fruity Loops? It's the best out there!

http://www.fruityloops.com/

Tony Hall · January 15th, 2006, 08:26 AM

Thanks Douglas... I've got a copy of your Vegas book in the mail ;)

Acid sounds like the way to go for me for now.

Joel Kreisel · January 17th, 2006, 10:38 PM

Josef, I've been asking this question myself lately and came up with Garritan Personal Orchestra as well. It can be plugged into a notation program like Sibelius or Overture to have exact-note playback, and the quality is phenomenal. You can get a copy online which includes Overture (unless you already have Sibelius or Overture to use it with) for about $250. I'd definately recommend checking it out.

Am I allowed to link to non-sponsored vendors here? If not, you can email me and I'll send you a link to a site where you can buy it. Or you can just Froogle for it yourself. Just make sure you get the version that comes with notation software if you need it (otherwise you're looking at another $200).

Luke McMillian · January 18th, 2006, 10:00 PM

Hey,

I'm also interested in Garritan Personal Orchestra, I'm wondering if it works on cubase le, because an audio interface product I'm looking at comes bundled with it. Do you know guys know of any other similar vst packs like Garritan Personal Orchestra, is this the best one out there? or are there better ones?

Luke

Joel Kreisel · January 19th, 2006, 07:35 PM

There are better ones, if money is no object, but Garritan is by far the best bang for your buck. If you feel like going all out look for EastWest Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra. It comes in a variety of versions from Silver ($200) to Gold ($500) to Platinum ($1,500). Although Silver sounds good, I don't know that I'd recommend it because it doesn't have the die-out samples. Gold has those and more instruments as well. The advantage of Platinum is that it has even more instruments as well as three microphone placements for every instrument, allowing you to mix in surround sound if you so desire. (I think that's what it's for anyway.)

Most reviews I've read are pretty unanimous that Symphonic Orchestra is the best out there (it was actually specifically designed for writing/performing film scores), but I don't have the luxury of $700+ (since it doesn't include notation software) to spend on it.

EastWest's website is http://www.soundsonline.com/
Garritan Personal Orchestra is at http://www.garritan.com

Daniel Rudd · January 22nd, 2006, 08:57 AM

I'll be checking out a few of these that I had not heard of before, but to this date, in my scoring work, I haven't found a sampled stuff I'm happy with.

The samples are great, but I can't control them in the same way a bow does (specifically strings).

One technique I'm working is layering some real strings over the sampled stuff.

I can't afford an orchestra, but I can afford a violinist or a chello player.

I get her my composition in advance. She comes in a multitracks along with it.

I haven't perfected this yet, but if you have access to a great strings player it may really help your track.

Also, one more library: Miroslav orchestra by ikmultimedia (www.ikmultimedia.com) Their samples sound pretty impressive.

Not sure how it compares to the others mentioned (garrett and eastwest)

I have the bosendorfer290 library from East West and it is amazing.

Roy Sallows · March 14th, 2006, 06:52 PM

If anyone is interested, you can read a review of BIAB at http://www.cleverjoe.com/articles/band-in-a-box.html. And, no, I don't own stock.

Patomakarn Nitanontawat · March 16th, 2006, 04:01 AM

Sounds like he wants to really compose, as to patching a bunch of loops and licks together. I do recommend this package if you're almost going to write orchestral music seriously. Get the cheapest version of Cubase (trust me you don't need the advanced functions, save some money) and buy East West Symphonic Library Gold XP, worth every penny. It's amazing how much you can get out of it. PM me if you want to hear what kind of stuff that can be done with this simple package.

December 26th, 2005, 06:36 AM	#16
Jos Svendsen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 221	If you are a passive musician - meaning that you know what you like to hear, but have no musical abilities - then Musigenesis (http://www.musigenesis.com/) can be a posibility. The programs generates music, and lets you choose the bits you like. Based on your selections the program will elvolve the music further to your taste. I've tried it, but you have to have plenty of time and patience in order to get good results. Acid was faster for me. But Musigenesis can get you some music with a sort of - well marsian feeling to it. So I use it when I need music that sounds different __________________ ---------------------------- 12c41 JOS. Svendsen

December 26th, 2005, 11:07 AM	#17
John Rofrano Sponsor: VASST Join Date: May 2005 Location: New York Posts: 516	You might want to take a look at Garritan Personal Orchestra. It has individual samples of an entire orchestra in single and ensemble modes (both wet and dry). This is a VSTi instrument that plugs into a multi-track application like ACID, Sonar, Cubase, etc. (I use it in ACID). I believe Reason is a closed system (no VST/VSTi support) so you’re going to be very limited with orchestral sounds by staying with that application. ~jr __________________ Developer: VASST Ultimate S, Scattershot 3D, Mayhem, FASST Apps, and other VASST Software plug-ins Web Site: www.johnrofrano.com

December 26th, 2005, 12:53 PM	#18
Roy Sallows Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 57	Sorry, Chris... I had several, but the old laptop (IBM) crashed and burned spectacularly - the little ninety-degree power connection, where the wall-wart adapter plugged into the main circuit board - shorted out. Poof. A crackle and awful silence. But BIAB is one heck of a program. My intention was to see if the MIDI files could be read by a sequencer with a better selection of sounds - the string and brass sounds were tinny and not accurate. But in checking out the site recently, I previewed the new Roland software synth and it sounds pretty darned good.

January 7th, 2006, 11:47 AM	#20
Roy Sallows Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 57	But that's the point, Josef! BIAB doesn't replace musical talent. You can write as much of the real music as you want. For example, write a melody, then select a style - classical, bluegrass, whatever... (there are about 1500 styles if I remember correctly) ...and BIAB will supply all the backing you need - bass, drums, guitar, keyboards, orchestral, etc. - in that style, and around your melody. It can also write a lead on the instrument of your choice (keyboards are best) that compliments your melody. It can also create harmonies in about a hundred different styles and voices. You can write, in various notations, for every one of the voices supported by the program, up to and including a drum track with umpteen different sounds (I never bothered with it, because what the program came up with was cool). In short, BIAB can be a great tool for any musician, whether gifted with ability or saddled by ineptitude.

January 14th, 2006, 09:12 PM	#21
Tony Hall Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: springfield, OH Posts: 344	I downloaded a trial of Band in a Box and played around with it a bit. I'm not certain of the quality though. I guess I could give it a shot since it's so cheap. I'm in the same situation as many of you. I want to score my own soundtrack, but the choices out there are a bit overwhelming. I've looked at Acid and Sound Forge... I'm not sure what the difference between the two is... I'm not exactly sure what they do. I know Acid loops sounds, but do you have to buy the sounds that you loop? I'd like to know what product for the PC is comparable to Garageband on a mac. __________________ Tony "Good taste is the enemy of creativity" - Picasso Blog: http://www.tonyhall.name

December 29th, 2005, 07:51 PM	#19
Josef Heks Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 74	Personally I have a bit of a problem with programes like Musicgenius. Being a musician myself, it sort of seems like cheating to use a program which creates music - that said, im sure u have a lot of creative control, but i prefer the method of creating every note and having total control. Thanks for all the suggestions everyone, theve been very helpful...looks like i may have to move on from Reason sigh!

January 15th, 2006, 01:08 AM	#23
Mark Utley Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 479	How come no one has mentioned Fruity Loops? It's the best out there! http://www.fruityloops.com/ __________________ Mark Utley

January 15th, 2006, 08:26 AM	#24
Tony Hall Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: springfield, OH Posts: 344	Thanks Douglas... I've got a copy of your Vegas book in the mail ;) Acid sounds like the way to go for me for now. __________________ Tony "Good taste is the enemy of creativity" - Picasso Blog: http://www.tonyhall.name

January 17th, 2006, 10:38 PM	#25
Joel Kreisel Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 44	Josef, I've been asking this question myself lately and came up with Garritan Personal Orchestra as well. It can be plugged into a notation program like Sibelius or Overture to have exact-note playback, and the quality is phenomenal. You can get a copy online which includes Overture (unless you already have Sibelius or Overture to use it with) for about $250. I'd definately recommend checking it out. Am I allowed to link to non-sponsored vendors here? If not, you can email me and I'll send you a link to a site where you can buy it. Or you can just Froogle for it yourself. Just make sure you get the version that comes with notation software if you need it (otherwise you're looking at another $200). Last edited by Joel Kreisel; January 17th, 2006 at 11:24 PM.

January 18th, 2006, 10:00 PM	#26
Luke McMillian Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 62	Hey, I'm also interested in Garritan Personal Orchestra, I'm wondering if it works on cubase le, because an audio interface product I'm looking at comes bundled with it. Do you know guys know of any other similar vst packs like Garritan Personal Orchestra, is this the best one out there? or are there better ones? Luke

January 19th, 2006, 07:35 PM	#27
Joel Kreisel Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA Posts: 44	There are better ones, if money is no object, but Garritan is by far the best bang for your buck. If you feel like going all out look for EastWest Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra. It comes in a variety of versions from Silver ($200) to Gold ($500) to Platinum ($1,500). Although Silver sounds good, I don't know that I'd recommend it because it doesn't have the die-out samples. Gold has those and more instruments as well. The advantage of Platinum is that it has even more instruments as well as three microphone placements for every instrument, allowing you to mix in surround sound if you so desire. (I think that's what it's for anyway.) Most reviews I've read are pretty unanimous that Symphonic Orchestra is the best out there (it was actually specifically designed for writing/performing film scores), but I don't have the luxury of $700+ (since it doesn't include notation software) to spend on it. EastWest's website is http://www.soundsonline.com/ Garritan Personal Orchestra is at http://www.garritan.com

January 22nd, 2006, 08:57 AM	#28
Daniel Rudd Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: North Muskegon, MI Posts: 213	I'll be checking out a few of these that I had not heard of before, but to this date, in my scoring work, I haven't found a sampled stuff I'm happy with. The samples are great, but I can't control them in the same way a bow does (specifically strings). One technique I'm working is layering some real strings over the sampled stuff. I can't afford an orchestra, but I can afford a violinist or a chello player. I get her my composition in advance. She comes in a multitracks along with it. I haven't perfected this yet, but if you have access to a great strings player it may really help your track. Also, one more library: Miroslav orchestra by ikmultimedia (www.ikmultimedia.com) Their samples sound pretty impressive. Not sure how it compares to the others mentioned (garrett and eastwest) I have the bosendorfer290 library from East West and it is amazing. __________________ Daniel Rudd Digital Storyteller (Sony HDV, Aspect HD) Soundtrack Creation & Royalty Free Music Production www.stock20.com

March 14th, 2006, 06:52 PM	#29
Roy Sallows Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 57	A review of BIAB If anyone is interested, you can read a review of BIAB at http://www.cleverjoe.com/articles/band-in-a-box.html. And, no, I don't own stock.

March 16th, 2006, 04:01 AM	#30
Patomakarn Nitanontawat Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 97	hmm Sounds like he wants to really compose, as to patching a bunch of loops and licks together. I do recommend this package if you're almost going to write orchestral music seriously. Get the cheapest version of Cubase (trust me you don't need the advanced functions, save some money) and buy East West Symphonic Library Gold XP, worth every penny. It's amazing how much you can get out of it. PM me if you want to hear what kind of stuff that can be done with this simple package.