Sennheiser MKH416 p at DVinfo.net

Phil Kay · November 10th, 2005, 01:42 PM

I'm looking for a good mic to use with my PD170. Is the MKH416 good?
Also,what is 'phantom' power? Can I run this mic off the camera?
I will be using the mic on a pole for interviews mainly.

Thanks.

Greg Bellotte · November 10th, 2005, 02:56 PM

hi phil,

if you've got the dough, the 416 is one of the most used microphones in all of remote tv broadcasts. i don't think you will find a production truck on the road without one. i use these mics extensively and have always been happy with the sound and more importantly, it's reliability.

phantom power is a standard way of powering microphones from the equipment it plugs into, as opposed to being self powered by an internal battery. your pd170 can supply this power, one of the switches on the handle should be labeled something like +48, one of the common labels for phantom.

if you are to be using this mic outdoors, i highly recommend also getting a zepplin type windscreen. also a shock mount is in order at all times as well.

not only do i use mine on a boompole, it has been used as a v/o mic in studio as well. as you can see, it's one of my all around favorite mics.

Guy Cochran · November 10th, 2005, 05:42 PM

I'll vouch for the MKH 416 too. Awesome mic for over $1k, very natural sounding. Upon doing some initial side by side tests with this mic when I first got it, I just totally fell in love with it - wound up buying one for my own productions. Seriously, the 416 makes other mics you once thought were good sound like an AM radio. It opens everthing up to a whole other level. Definitely worth taking a listen to. Great for VO too...used in a lot of recording studios and an industry standard for films.
There is an article in the "articles" section on this site by Ken Tanaka you might want to read.
Also you can hear a sample here http://www.dvfreelancer.com/articles..._shootout.html

Will you be using this mic indoors or outdoors? Indoors you might want to consider something else.

BTW, I sell these mics too, but this is my personal opinion and I'm sure you'll find many others in this forum and in the industry that will totally agree.

Phil Kay · November 10th, 2005, 05:46 PM

WOW! I'll be ordering one tomorrow.

Thanks for that guys.

Dave Largent · November 11th, 2005, 06:09 AM

What's about the best combo indoor/outdoor
mic? I thought maybe it was the 416. How
about the Sanken CS3 as best combo?

Laurence Kingston · November 11th, 2005, 10:26 AM

The problem with the indoor/outdoor mic choice is that indoors a cardiod mic is best and outdoors a more directional shotgun is best. The reason for this is that shotguns work by picking up sounds from the side and back and mixing them in out of phase with the signal from the main omni capsule that picks up the stuff you want to keep.

Outdoors this works as it should because most of the sound that hits the mic is coming directly from whatever source generated it. Sources in front of the mic are reinforced while sources coming from the backs and sides are cancelled out (aside from the node pattern which you are still stuck with).

Indoors there is an awful lot of reflected sound coming from all directions. Much of this reflected sound is the source that you want, but there are multiple reflections which have been bounced off the walls, floor and ceiling and have picked up all sorts of random phases in the process. Since these reflections are already randomly out of phase, they don't cancel properlly when mixed out of phase with the main omni capsule and instead sound boxy and strange. This situation is relative to how directional the mic is. Omnis don't suffer at all, cardiods begin to, hyper-cardiods do a little more, and shotguns really suffer with this effect.

My favorite on camera mic is the Sennheiser ME64. It's a cardiod with a pronounced upper midrange frequency peak which really brings out the legibility on dialog, even when using a fuzzy windscreen. I'm not the only one who likes this on camera either, you'll find quite a few of us who just love this mic on camera. Check out this link for an Alan Barker testimonial on this mic:
http://www.alanbarker.com/index.html?body=whyk6.html

As far as shotguns go, the 416 is the industry standard. In any outdoor or soundstage application (soundstages look like indoors, but they sure don't sound like it), this is the mic you most often hear and it really sounds great. It is my favorite shotgun by a longshot. It sure is expensive though!

Steve House · November 11th, 2005, 11:48 AM

One might add that due to the physics of their design, shotguns could best be described as having frequency-dependent directionality and off-axis bass frequencies aren't supressed as much as are the midrange to high tones. As a result, reflected sounds indoors that arrive at the mic from the sides and the rear tend to be relatively bass emphasized resulting in a hollow, boomy sound. Hypercardoids work on different physics and their off-axis reduction is more frequency neutral so that recordings indoors pick up less colouration from the environment than with shotguns.

Ty Ford · November 11th, 2005, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Largent

What's about the best combo indoor/outdoor
mic? I thought maybe it was the 416. How
about the Sanken CS3 as best combo?

STOP!

You don't want to use a shotgun inside. You want a hypercardioid for interiors....PERIOD!

SHOTGUNS ARE MORE OMNI DIRECTIONAL AT MID A LOW FREQUENCIES.

They pick up a lot of wall and ceiling bounce that sounds really nasty.

BTW, the 416 sounds anything but natural. It's a VERY aggressive shotgun. I have one and have used many.

The Sanken CS3e, is much more natural sounding than the 416.

BTW, The new killer combo (as of the AES show in NY) woul be the new Schoeps CMIT shotgun and cmc641 hypercardioid.

GREAT new shotgun. I have one here at the moment and it matches the sound of the cmc641 EXTREMELY well.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Dave Largent · November 12th, 2005, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

BTW, the 416 sounds anything but natural. It's a VERY aggressive shotgun.

What are you referring to hear? A hyped high end
to bring out speech clarity?

Ty Ford · November 12th, 2005, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Largent

What are you referring to hear? A hyped high end
to bring out speech clarity?

Yes the 416 has quite a peak. It brings out speech and any sound with energy in that range of frequencies; shoes though grass, gravel between soles and pavement. The Schoeps cmc641 and CMIT favor the midrange and are less peaky.

Compare a Sanken CS3e to a 416. The CS3e sounds more like what our ears hear. As does the new Schoeps CMIT shotgun.

I own both a 416 and 816. They are industry standard tools. If I'm really trying to match my cmc641 for an outdoor scene, though, it would be nicer to use a CMIT.

I have a short (very short) video of the Schoeps CMIT up in my video filder in my online archive. Also some 416 comparisons with other mics in my Audio folder.

I'm working on an article for publication (which means the publisher comissions me to write it) so I can't really be giving the story away for free...know what I mean?

Regards,

Ty Ford

November 10th, 2005, 01:42 PM	#1
Phil Kay Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Peel,Isle of Man(UK) Posts: 194	Sennheiser MKH416 p I'm looking for a good mic to use with my PD170. Is the MKH416 good? Also,what is 'phantom' power? Can I run this mic off the camera? I will be using the mic on a pole for interviews mainly. Thanks.

November 10th, 2005, 05:42 PM	#3
Guy Cochran DVCreators.Net Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 892	I'll vouch for the MKH 416 too. Awesome mic for over $1k, very natural sounding. Upon doing some initial side by side tests with this mic when I first got it, I just totally fell in love with it - wound up buying one for my own productions. Seriously, the 416 makes other mics you once thought were good sound like an AM radio. It opens everthing up to a whole other level. Definitely worth taking a listen to. Great for VO too...used in a lot of recording studios and an industry standard for films. There is an article in the "articles" section on this site by Ken Tanaka you might want to read. Also you can hear a sample here http://www.dvfreelancer.com/articles..._shootout.html Will you be using this mic indoors or outdoors? Indoors you might want to consider something else. BTW, I sell these mics too, but this is my personal opinion and I'm sure you'll find many others in this forum and in the industry that will totally agree. __________________ Guy Cochran DVinfo Sponsor, Cool Gear - DVeStore!

November 10th, 2005, 05:46 PM	#4
Phil Kay Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Peel,Isle of Man(UK) Posts: 194	Mic WOW! I'll be ordering one tomorrow. Thanks for that guys.

November 11th, 2005, 11:48 AM	#7
Steve House Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,742	One might add that due to the physics of their design, shotguns could best be described as having frequency-dependent directionality and off-axis bass frequencies aren't supressed as much as are the midrange to high tones. As a result, reflected sounds indoors that arrive at the mic from the sides and the rear tend to be relatively bass emphasized resulting in a hollow, boomy sound. Hypercardoids work on different physics and their off-axis reduction is more frequency neutral so that recordings indoors pick up less colouration from the environment than with shotguns. __________________ Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!

November 10th, 2005, 02:56 PM	#2
Greg Bellotte Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: SLC, UT Posts: 291	hi phil, if you've got the dough, the 416 is one of the most used microphones in all of remote tv broadcasts. i don't think you will find a production truck on the road without one. i use these mics extensively and have always been happy with the sound and more importantly, it's reliability. phantom power is a standard way of powering microphones from the equipment it plugs into, as opposed to being self powered by an internal battery. your pd170 can supply this power, one of the switches on the handle should be labeled something like +48, one of the common labels for phantom. if you are to be using this mic outdoors, i highly recommend also getting a zepplin type windscreen. also a shock mount is in order at all times as well. not only do i use mine on a boompole, it has been used as a v/o mic in studio as well. as you can see, it's one of my all around favorite mics.

November 11th, 2005, 06:09 AM	#5
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	What's about the best combo indoor/outdoor mic? I thought maybe it was the 416. How about the Sanken CS3 as best combo?

November 11th, 2005, 10:26 AM	#6
Laurence Kingston Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Clermont, FL. Posts: 941	The problem with the indoor/outdoor mic choice is that indoors a cardiod mic is best and outdoors a more directional shotgun is best. The reason for this is that shotguns work by picking up sounds from the side and back and mixing them in out of phase with the signal from the main omni capsule that picks up the stuff you want to keep. Outdoors this works as it should because most of the sound that hits the mic is coming directly from whatever source generated it. Sources in front of the mic are reinforced while sources coming from the backs and sides are cancelled out (aside from the node pattern which you are still stuck with). Indoors there is an awful lot of reflected sound coming from all directions. Much of this reflected sound is the source that you want, but there are multiple reflections which have been bounced off the walls, floor and ceiling and have picked up all sorts of random phases in the process. Since these reflections are already randomly out of phase, they don't cancel properlly when mixed out of phase with the main omni capsule and instead sound boxy and strange. This situation is relative to how directional the mic is. Omnis don't suffer at all, cardiods begin to, hyper-cardiods do a little more, and shotguns really suffer with this effect. My favorite on camera mic is the Sennheiser ME64. It's a cardiod with a pronounced upper midrange frequency peak which really brings out the legibility on dialog, even when using a fuzzy windscreen. I'm not the only one who likes this on camera either, you'll find quite a few of us who just love this mic on camera. Check out this link for an Alan Barker testimonial on this mic: http://www.alanbarker.com/index.html?body=whyk6.html As far as shotguns go, the 416 is the industry standard. In any outdoor or soundstage application (soundstages look like indoors, but they sure don't sound like it), this is the mic you most often hear and it really sounds great. It is my favorite shotgun by a longshot. It sure is expensive though!