Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?

Ryan Elder · January 26th, 2021, 05:20 PM

Oh well it's just I want to get more involved in the music process because in past projects, the scores didn't sound like how I wanted them to, so I wanted to get more involved therefore. Otherwise I feel the same thing will happen and it will not sound how I feel it should.

Brian Drysdale · January 26th, 2021, 05:42 PM

Just watch how the best film music composers create their music in that "Score" documentary, At the moment, your current method seems to be a moving target of copy and pasting stuff from other films.

Ryan Elder · January 26th, 2021, 05:56 PM

Well I don't want the composer to do the exact same track but give me something that is simiIar in feel and sound, but is that bad? I watched the movie Score. It was pretty good, and learned some things from it for sure! The producer and director do work with the composers during the process though in the video clips in the movie, and the composer still seems to want to give them what they are looking for to an extent, but also throwing in some ideas of their own. I think after thinking about it and what you people said that I should perhaps put the example tracks in the final edit, but then ask the composer if he has any other ideas too in his experties, that I may like better. Then in the end, I can pick which temp tracks I feel work best, if that's better?

Brian Drysdale · January 27th, 2021, 02:14 AM

That sounds more sensible. In the documentary, they're composing music in the post production stage, so everyone has a sense of what the film actually feels and looks like.

For anyone in the UK, it's currently available on iplayer: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...st-soundtracks

Paul R Johnson · January 27th, 2021, 03:02 AM

The guy michelmore I bang on about is worth watching because he gets sent new instruments, so in his videos he will have an instrument to use a video and no guide at all. Composing music for film and tv is his job. He listens watches and plays. Sometimes it works and sometimes he just says no, that’s rubbish, when I rather liked it. However, the way he works is important and it’s also always fast. If he is showing off something he plays with it, tweaking and fiddling until he goes aha, then a melody appears. He will do the whole cue or just 16 bars of it. He spends time getting tempo right or deciding on the time sig, but he plays, and it builds. Most music in a movie is not a theme - the bit that gets promoted as the movie music, but it’s mood music and after people finish the movie they cannot remember it.

Josh Bass · January 27th, 2021, 08:54 AM

There are or used to be scoring programs that used virtual instruments along with settings for tempo, mood, key, probably a billion other things to create a score suited to your movie. You can do it bar by bar so it builds and dips in the right places etc. One was “sony cinescore”. Doesnt look like they make it any more but maybe there are others. Something like that seems like it’d be perfect for Ryan. yeah, you wont the most unique score but do you really need it? This aint Star Wars or Indiana Jones. He could fart around to his heart’s content til he got it just right and not have to pay anyone else or harass them with endless tweaks and revisions.

Ryan Elder · January 27th, 2021, 08:57 AM

Okay thanks, I saw some of the michelmore ones before, and can watch some more. Thanks.

I wasn't thinking most of the music would be 'theme music', just music that fits the moments more so.

Ryan Elder · January 27th, 2021, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Bass

There are or used to be scoring programs that used virtual instruments along with settings for tempo, mood, key, probably a billion other things to create a score suited to your movie. You can do it bar by bar so it builds and dips in the right places etc. One was “sony cinescore”. Doesnt look like they make it any more but maybe there are others. Something like that seems like it’d be perfect for Ryan. yeah, you wont the most unique score but do you really need it? This aint Star Wars or Indiana Jones. He could fart around to his heart’s content til he got it just right and not have to pay anyone else or harass them with endless tweaks and revisions.

Oh well even though I know what I want the music to sound like, I still don't know how to write it. But does does Sony cinescore allow you to use samples of instruments though?

Josh Bass · January 27th, 2021, 01:29 PM

They don't make it anymore; maybe can find an old version on eBay or similar software, but yes, that's what I was getting at, samples/instruments are built in, you don't have to know jack about music...it has all sorts of parameters for mood, tempo, etc you adjust, and you can edit to build/climax at just the right moment etc. It's aimed at people who don't know how to write music.

David Dalton · January 27th, 2021, 02:35 PM

There are several examples on Youtube demonstrating Cinescore. I know nothing about music but used it on amateur films. I found it very useful. A lot of people were disappointed when Sony didn't develop it.

Josh Bass · January 27th, 2021, 02:37 PM

Seems like there have to be alternatives? Surely sony isnt the only one who thought to fill that niche.

Pete Cofrancesco · January 27th, 2021, 03:46 PM

It's on ebay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-Cinesc...AAAOSwvihY-mdO

I predicted 10 pages back that Ryan would want to take over the composer's job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

... You strike me as someone who pumps a professional for information then instead of hiring them, you try to do it yourself. You embody many "bad" client characteristics.

Ryan Elder · January 27th, 2021, 04:03 PM

Oh okay, I'm not taking over the composer's job. It was suggested to me that I try out cinescore, so I was just taking the suggestion.

Paul R Johnson · January 27th, 2021, 04:29 PM

The snag with it was simply technology moved on and the Cinescore results started to get over-used, as any good software tends to. There really wasn't much wrong with it, but the number of add on packs didn't;t develop - so with the rise of Shazzam, the 'uniqueness' of the end results started to drop off - people on forums would complain that everything started to sound the same, and they also started to object to the need to buy continual add ons to be different from the ones you did last week. A great idea and for a while, it was different, but then it started to just get boring and, to be fair, they didn't have the ability to put in a bass flute themed track - clearly a severe limitation.

Seriously though - technology has got a lot better in ten years - but also the kind of music people want has also changed.

Greg Miller · January 27th, 2021, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

they didn't have the ability to put in a bass flute themed track - clearly a severe limitation.

But if you layer a didgeridoo and a nose flute, couldn't you approximate the same thing?

January 26th, 2021, 05:20 PM	#481
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this? Oh well it's just I want to get more involved in the music process because in past projects, the scores didn't sound like how I wanted them to, so I wanted to get more involved therefore. Otherwise I feel the same thing will happen and it will not sound how I feel it should.

January 26th, 2021, 05:42 PM	#482
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this? Just watch how the best film music composers create their music in that "Score" documentary, At the moment, your current method seems to be a moving target of copy and pasting stuff from other films.

January 26th, 2021, 05:56 PM	#483
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this? Well I don't want the composer to do the exact same track but give me something that is simiIar in feel and sound, but is that bad? I watched the movie Score. It was pretty good, and learned some things from it for sure! The producer and director do work with the composers during the process though in the video clips in the movie, and the composer still seems to want to give them what they are looking for to an extent, but also throwing in some ideas of their own. I think after thinking about it and what you people said that I should perhaps put the example tracks in the final edit, but then ask the composer if he has any other ideas too in his experties, that I may like better. Then in the end, I can pick which temp tracks I feel work best, if that's better? Last edited by Ryan Elder; January 26th, 2021 at 11:54 PM.

January 27th, 2021, 02:14 AM	#484
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this? That sounds more sensible. In the documentary, they're composing music in the post production stage, so everyone has a sense of what the film actually feels and looks like. For anyone in the UK, it's currently available on iplayer: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...st-soundtracks

January 27th, 2021, 03:02 AM	#485
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this? The guy michelmore I bang on about is worth watching because he gets sent new instruments, so in his videos he will have an instrument to use a video and no guide at all. Composing music for film and tv is his job. He listens watches and plays. Sometimes it works and sometimes he just says no, that’s rubbish, when I rather liked it. However, the way he works is important and it’s also always fast. If he is showing off something he plays with it, tweaking and fiddling until he goes aha, then a melody appears. He will do the whole cue or just 16 bars of it. He spends time getting tempo right or deciding on the time sig, but he plays, and it builds. Most music in a movie is not a theme - the bit that gets promoted as the movie music, but it’s mood music and after people finish the movie they cannot remember it.

January 27th, 2021, 08:54 AM	#486
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this? There are or used to be scoring programs that used virtual instruments along with settings for tempo, mood, key, probably a billion other things to create a score suited to your movie. You can do it bar by bar so it builds and dips in the right places etc. One was “sony cinescore”. Doesnt look like they make it any more but maybe there are others. Something like that seems like it’d be perfect for Ryan. yeah, you wont the most unique score but do you really need it? This aint Star Wars or Indiana Jones. He could fart around to his heart’s content til he got it just right and not have to pay anyone else or harass them with endless tweaks and revisions. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

January 27th, 2021, 08:57 AM	#487
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this? Okay thanks, I saw some of the michelmore ones before, and can watch some more. Thanks. I wasn't thinking most of the music would be 'theme music', just music that fits the moments more so.

January 27th, 2021, 01:29 PM	#489
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this? They don't make it anymore; maybe can find an old version on eBay or similar software, but yes, that's what I was getting at, samples/instruments are built in, you don't have to know jack about music...it has all sorts of parameters for mood, tempo, etc you adjust, and you can edit to build/climax at just the right moment etc. It's aimed at people who don't know how to write music. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

January 27th, 2021, 02:35 PM	#490
David Dalton Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Uckfield, UK Posts: 69	Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this? There are several examples on Youtube demonstrating Cinescore. I know nothing about music but used it on amateur films. I found it very useful. A lot of people were disappointed when Sony didn't develop it.

January 27th, 2021, 02:37 PM	#491
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this? Seems like there have to be alternatives? Surely sony isnt the only one who thought to fill that niche. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

January 27th, 2021, 04:03 PM	#493
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this? Oh okay, I'm not taking over the composer's job. It was suggested to me that I try out cinescore, so I was just taking the suggestion.

January 27th, 2021, 04:29 PM	#494
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Re: Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this? The snag with it was simply technology moved on and the Cinescore results started to get over-used, as any good software tends to. There really wasn't much wrong with it, but the number of add on packs didn't;t develop - so with the rise of Shazzam, the 'uniqueness' of the end results started to drop off - people on forums would complain that everything started to sound the same, and they also started to object to the need to buy continual add ons to be different from the ones you did last week. A great idea and for a while, it was different, but then it started to just get boring and, to be fair, they didn't have the ability to put in a bass flute themed track - clearly a severe limitation. Seriously though - technology has got a lot better in ten years - but also the kind of music people want has also changed.