Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?

[Paul R Johnson]

Ryan - why are you making this so hard? What do you want other musicians for? Unless you are now going to spend lots of money, and have the aptitude, recording real musicians for your projects is a daft thing too contemplate.

Non-musicians can buy affordable DAWs and some sample libraries and produce music, but it's musicianship you need. You haven't got it, so you need your composer to do it. Frankly, though, I'm very surprised he's struggling because I don't think I have come across a composer since the 90's who is not computer literate and has their own dedicated kit - and, we all like similar but different kit. Today, I'm replacing somebodies poorer violin sounds with mum better ones, which requires me to edit and replay some of it.

Is your composer able to do this stuff? If he is not - you seriously need to reconsider his composer label.

We are not at present able to model saxophones very well, and we're not able to use samples very easily - just a tricky example. Everything else seems to be possible. WHY ARE YOU STRESSING OVER THIS? It's for your composer to sort.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay I see. Sorry I don't mean to make this hard, just trying to understand more of it.

So the sax is an exception and is difficult compared to all the other instruments then pretty much.

[Paul R Johnson]

I'm sorry Ryan - you're trying to put your rule book together again. I'm using the saxophone as a common instrument difficult to recreate. But equally, it's also difficult for a beginner to master the things it can do. everyone recognises that screaming kind of sound you can get - but beginners don't realise that to do that they have to actually hum, or kind of sing, and the sound that comes out is the breath through the reed, modulated by the hum/singing.

These things apply to other instruments too - like the difference between draw and blow on the harmonica. Trumpeters can split notes - that's also difficult to simulate. I've just bought a theremin - and it's going to take a while to master, but seems capable of creating the sounds from every sci-fi B moviemakers from the 50s.

How about the Ondes Martinot - another weird instrument from that era - Google that one.

The one thing beginners forget about mimicking/recreating real instruments is that you need to think about how they produce notes. Somebody mentioned range, and you can research this easily, and the lowest note is the vital one on pretty well every instrument. This is why 5 string basses are popular. The lowest note on a 4 string is an E - but many popular songs are in the easier to play keys so C is popular (the white note scale), but a Bass guitar only has a higher C, but a 5 string has a very low C (and the B below).

Other common mistakes are the bottom notes of clarinets, saxophones and other transposing instruments. People forget that if you play a low C on a tenor sax, it actually sounds a Bb, and an alto sounds an Eb. It also means that there are tonal changes to take into account. At some point you move from the lower register to the upper register, and when you do, the tone changes. So if you really want to mimic a sax, you might go up and then after the C, you play the D at the bottom of the upper register and it sounds different. A simple sax instrument played on the keyboard won't do this automatically, you have to edit. Some instruments are also very tricky to go from certain notes to certain notes - too many finger movements. If you do a slide down the fretboard on a guitar, that is NOT a pitchblend - it is a series of individual notes a fret apart - so you have to mimic that. Strings don't play chords, the create chords with other instruments. Beginners often get this very wrong. You have to write multiple separate melodies that merge to create chords, but in a quartet it would be two violins viola and cello - so they all sound different. A string patch with three or four notes all sound the same - unless its a very good sampler instrument when if you spread the four notes into two hands with more space between, it sounds better. You also in more orchestral arrangements with double basses, have them very often doubling the cello part, but lower.

Ryan - you like low instruments - you mentioned bass flute and bass clarinet I think. Remember these are niche instruments. They get added when numbers and budgets allow and are mainly texture. Bass flutes, for instance are rarely going to play critical parts because they are mild, and even perhaps weak instruments because they are big and rely on air across the lip plate to excite the air inside. If you have ever blown across a big jug, you find you cannot be loud - it's just more than a lung full at high pressure and doesn't;t sound nice. Bass clarinet doesn't sound very different from a bassoon played gently. You need to be careful with these less 'useful' instruments because they get lost. Remember that when they invented saxophones, musicians nearly went on strike in europe - they hated them because their design meant loud, brash and unbending - exactly the opposite of most orchestral instruments.

If you are vaguely musical and have some money to spend - I'd suggest Cubase elements - because it comes with useful sounds and can easily have VSTi instrument added - many of which are free or cheap and fan developed. The big boys like Spitfire even have really usable free sample packages - which encourage you to buy their expensive ones, which can cost the price of a brand new car! Some of the stuff are soundscapes and stuff even a non-musical person can use to create really useful music for video.

Your composer really should haver this stuff. I'm serious here - Look at people like Hans Zimmer - Music Technology people. Do watch the Guy Michelmore videos on Youtube - see how he creates emotion and tension. You'll also see how being a musician is critical for some things. You need musicians who can handle technology. Dinosaurs who cannot, are useless to you. Nobody nowadays has budget to record people as experiments. The big names do it in a computer, and then may well bring in 100 musicians, but their computer stuff is excellent. If people want - I'll happily link to stuff I've done (I never sell music, I licence it, so after a period, I get it back to do whatever I want with it) I won't put it up and waste space unless people want examples. I've just finished one and its been rejected - the client wanted a synth version of a Debussy piece - Golliwog's Cakewalk and I sent the advance copy off and he'd got the wrong piece of music. He's trying to find the name of the thing he wants - so it's wasted really. Still he's paying as it's his mistake. At least I didn't finish polishing it.

When I was examining this kind of thing, I remember vividly how awful some submissions were despite having great kit. It was simple mistakes that make it unrealistic.

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

I'm sorry Ryan - you're trying to put your rule book together again. I'm using the saxophone as a common instrument difficult to recreate. But equally, it's also difficult for a beginner to master the things it can do. everyone recognises that screaming kind of sound you can get - but beginners don't realise that to do that they have to actually hum, or kind of sing, and the sound that comes out is the breath through the reed, modulated by the hum/singing.

These things apply to other instruments too - like the difference between draw and blow on the harmonica. Trumpeters can split notes - that's also difficult to simulate. I've just bought a theremin - and it's going to take a while to master, but seems capable of creating the sounds from every sci-fi B moviemakers from the 50s.

How about the Ondes Martinot - another weird instrument from that era - Google that one.

The one thing beginners forget about mimicking/recreating real instruments is that you need to think about how they produce notes. Somebody mentioned range, and you can research this easily, and the lowest note is the vital one on pretty well every instrument. This is why 5 string basses are popular. The lowest note on a 4 string is an E - but many popular songs are in the easier to play keys so C is popular (the white note scale), but a Bass guitar only has a higher C, but a 5 string has a very low C (and the B below).

Other common mistakes are the bottom notes of clarinets, saxophones and other transposing instruments. People forget that if you play a low C on a tenor sax, it actually sounds a Bb, and an alto sounds an Eb. It also means that there are tonal changes to take into account. At some point you move from the lower register to the upper register, and when you do, the tone changes. So if you really want to mimic a sax, you might go up and then after the C, you play the D at the bottom of the upper register and it sounds different. A simple sax instrument played on the keyboard won't do this automatically, you have to edit. Some instruments are also very tricky to go from certain notes to certain notes - too many finger movements. If you do a slide down the fretboard on a guitar, that is NOT a pitchblend - it is a series of individual notes a fret apart - so you have to mimic that. Strings don't play chords, the create chords with other instruments. Beginners often get this very wrong. You have to write multiple separate melodies that merge to create chords, but in a quartet it would be two violins viola and cello - so they all sound different. A string patch with three or four notes all sound the same - unless its a very good sampler instrument when if you spread the four notes into two hands with more space between, it sounds better. You also in more orchestral arrangements with double basses, have them very often doubling the cello part, but lower.

Ryan - you like low instruments - you mentioned bass flute and bass clarinet I think. Remember these are niche instruments. They get added when numbers and budgets allow and are mainly texture. Bass flutes, for instance are rarely going to play critical parts because they are mild, and even perhaps weak instruments because they are big and rely on air across the lip plate to excite the air inside. If you have ever blown across a big jug, you find you cannot be loud - it's just more than a lung full at high pressure and doesn't;t sound nice. Bass clarinet doesn't sound very different from a bassoon played gently. You need to be careful with these less 'useful' instruments because they get lost. Remember that when they invented saxophones, musicians nearly went on strike in europe - they hated them because their design meant loud, brash and unbending - exactly the opposite of most orchestral instruments.

If you are vaguely musical and have some money to spend - I'd suggest Cubase elements - because it comes with useful sounds and can easily have VSTi instrument added - many of which are free or cheap and fan developed. The big boys like Spitfire even have really usable free sample packages - which encourage you to buy their expensive ones, which can cost the price of a brand new car! Some of the stuff are soundscapes and stuff even a non-musical person can use to create really useful music for video.

Your composer really should haver this stuff. I'm serious here - Look at people like Hans Zimmer - Music Technology people. Do watch the Guy Michelmore videos on Youtube - see how he creates emotion and tension. You'll also see how being a musician is critical for some things. You need musicians who can handle technology. Dinosaurs who cannot, are useless to you. Nobody nowadays has budget to record people as experiments. The big names do it in a computer, and then may well bring in 100 musicians, but their computer stuff is excellent. If people want - I'll happily link to stuff I've done (I never sell music, I licence it, so after a period, I get it back to do whatever I want with it) I won't put it up and waste space unless people want examples. I've just finished one and its been rejected - the client wanted a synth version of a Debussy piece - Golliwog's Cakewalk and I sent the advance copy off and he'd got the wrong piece of music. He's trying to find the name of the thing he wants - so it's wasted really. Still he's paying as it's his mistake. At least I didn't finish polishing it.

When I was examining this kind of thing, I remember vividly how awful some submissions were despite having great kit. It was simple mistakes that make it unrealistic.

Oh okay. I don't remember mentioning bass clarinet, or if I did, I must have changed my mind. For the bass flute, I wanted a multiphonic effect but is it possible to get those in samples? I see what you mean, that the musician has to sing into the instrument a certain way, but can you get samples, with different kinds of singing into the flute?

As far as instruments go, here are instruments I thought would sound good so far, for the score:

Violin, Viola, Cello, steel string acoustic, and electric
Trumpet
Trombone
Tuba
Synthesizer
Taikos
Snare
Bass Flute
Acoustic Piano
Electric Guitar, maybe acoustic
Xylophone
Harmonica
Bass Saxophone

We will probably add more, but this is what I had in mind so far, but would any of these be difficult to make sound good besides the bass sax, and possibly bass flute?

[Paul R Johnson]

Ryan - you're trying to talk a language you don't know. Think about a few things. How on earth can you sing into a flute? That would be comical as we'd hear it. You're also not quite understanding the technique - you don't sing as in sing a melody - you might sing the note you are playing, or one harmonica linked, or you might growl - but you won't find a sax player in an orchestra doing this. They won't bend notes either. Your instrumentation list is a proper orchestra if you remove the synth part (and what is this going to be doing?) I think you might mean baritone saxophone. A bass sax does exist, but is an impossible instrument to blend in with others without being specially written for - and - I don't know anyone who has one! What is the role of the bass flute - because that is another rarity in historic or contemporary musical styles. No basses I note? Taiko? Really?

Not being funny - but what on earth have you in mind that needs a full orchestra - well, mostly full as it's severely lacking woodwind, and that bass flute won't be heard with all that brass.

What do you mean when you say multi-phonic? What effect do you want it to do? Flutes are pretty limited in effect styles - you can have double tonguing and if the player can do it, all kinds of flutters, but it's low and usually a bit feeble.

Do you have the music written? I get the impression you have just randomly picked a collection of mismatched instruments for some kinds of music.

Tell me about your composer? Is he producing this list for you? Please tell me you haven't picked them and given him the arm behind back job of writing for them?

Lastly - you've just not got this sample business at all. Go to the spitfire audio website and watch and listen to their products - they have all sorts of different packages, and none of them have the saxophone stuff. Forget it, I've confused you completely trying to explain why saxes don't sound good without massive work.

Some packages are orchestras. Some are individual instruments and others what they call combinations - useful collections. BUT you need to forget about individual samples, you buy a package. A stand alone collection that works with it's own small app in your DAW, or maybe as a Kontakt instrument. The problem with all this is that your composer will need to be able to use it. You can easily spend thousands on sample libraries and be disappointed but discover a freebie that works - BUT - for one project where what it does fits.

Beware mixing electric and synthesised instruments with traditional ones - they usually fight like mad.

Is this the music for your other topic - the Police rape legal thing?

https://distrokid.com/hyperfollow/pa...walk-revisited

This is a link to a short bit of the weird synth thing - see the weirdness of mixing synths with real sounds.

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

Ryan - you're trying to talk a language you don't know. Think about a few things. How on earth can you sing into a flute? That would be comical as we'd hear it. You're also not quite understanding the technique - you don't sing as in sing a melody - you might sing the note you are playing, or one harmonica linked, or you might growl - but you won't find a sax player in an orchestra doing this. They won't bend notes either. Your instrumentation list is a proper orchestra if you remove the synth part (and what is this going to be doing?) I think you might mean baritone saxophone. A bass sax does exist, but is an impossible instrument to blend in with others without being specially written for - and - I don't know anyone who has one! What is the role of the bass flute - because that is another rarity in historic or contemporary musical styles. No basses I note? Taiko? Really?

Not being funny - but what on earth have you in mind that needs a full orchestra - well, mostly full as it's severely lacking woodwind, and that bass flute won't be heard with all that brass.

What do you mean when you say multi-phonic? What effect do you want it to do? Flutes are pretty limited in effect styles - you can have double tonguing and if the player can do it, all kinds of flutters, but it's low and usually a bit feeble.

Do you have the music written? I get the impression you have just randomly picked a collection of mismatched instruments for some kinds of music.

Tell me about your composer? Is he producing this list for you? Please tell me you haven't picked them and given him the arm behind back job of writing for them?

Lastly - you've just not got this sample business at all. Go to the spitfire audio website and watch and listen to their products - they have all sorts of different packages, and none of them have the saxophone stuff. Forget it, I've confused you completely trying to explain why saxes don't sound good without massive work.

Some packages are orchestras. Some are individual instruments and others what they call combinations - useful collections. BUT you need to forget about individual samples, you buy a package. A stand alone collection that works with it's own small app in your DAW, or maybe as a Kontakt instrument. The problem with all this is that your composer will need to be able to use it. You can easily spend thousands on sample libraries and be disappointed but discover a freebie that works - BUT - for one project where what it does fits.

Beware mixing electric and synthesised instruments with traditional ones - they usually fight like mad.

Is this the music for your other topic - the Police rape legal thing?

https://distrokid.com/hyperfollow/pa...walk-revisited

This is a link to a short bit of the weird synth thing - see the weirdness of mixing synths with real sounds.

Oh okay, but there are real movie soundtracks though where they mix synth with real instruments, so if other movie soundtracks do it, then what's wrong with it?

Perhaps singing into the flute was the wrong term, but if you blow or hum, or do whatever, into a flute a certain way, certain sounds are created, so I guess it's all about finding samples of those kinds of sounds?

When I say multiphonic, it was a term the composer used. What I mean is this kind of flute effect at 0:41 into this clip:

Braveheart Soundtrack - Revenge - YouTube

He said it's called multiphonics, unless he is using the wrong term?

The bass flute is also being played in this clip at 0:38 into the clip:

The Replacement Killers soundtrack part 3 - YouTube

So if those movies can use a bass flute, then what is wrong with it?

As for a bass flute not standing out, I think it all depends on the track as there are movies where I could hear the bass flute, no problem, on the soundtrack.

The music is not written all yet, but we are going over what it sound like from temp tracks I have picked out for him, and those instruments that give those kinds of sounds, on the temp track.

As for the role if the bass flute, I don't know the "role", I just thought it would sound good on certain parts of the score, compared to scores I have heard from other movies.

As for the taiko, what's wrong with that? I feel it's a really low dramatic sounding drum, that is good for blood suspensful moments, so what's wrong with it?

I was told it was called a bass sax, but perhaps I was told wrong and it's a baritone I am looking for then. When you say it's impossible to blend with other music, I heard in other music, so what's wrong with it, or how is it impossible?

Yes this is for the score for the project I was talking about before, with the police, yes.

As far as buying libraries go, the composer has a library but he says that some of my instrument choices are not in there and I would have to get for him individually, such as the taiko and harmonica or sax so far, but is there anything wrong with that?

[Brian Drysdale]

Again, the composer can listen to the temp tracks and hear the instruments being used. You don't need to go into this level of detail, unless you intend composing music yourself, this level of micromanagement will just piss off any good composer.

It's especially not required if you're still at the script writing stage.That's assuming that this is for the feature film.

The composer should be able to add instruments to their library, it's their job to do so, not yours, although you may have to pay for them.

[Paul R Johnson]

There is no was of knowing if that really is a bass flute, and alto flute or a flute at all - it could easily be somebody blowing over the top of a bottle .It's a manipulation of an effects type sound. I'm amazed you can even find a sound like this, then track down what it's claimed to be? In the time you take on forums, you could have spent time creating this sound and have it done, rather than agonising about what to write in your film making rule book.

I took my flute - a normal ordinary flute, and played as quietly as I could, until it started to flutter and break up - then I dropped it by an octave, and added reverb - it's now an effect, not a real note. Is this the kind of thing you want to create?
https://www.eastanglianradio.com/flutefx2.mp3

The replacement killers clip - 38 seconds? Bass flute? Really?

It's a low woodwind sound, but I doubt it ever sounded like that.

Like many of your thoughts, you've got confused about how the thing works. Have you watched Guy Michelmore yet to see how it's done? Then you'll see why names mean very little. Multi-phonics by the way is a meaningless term for impressing people who ask questions. Omni-phonics is another. My claim to fame is inventing 'sonic coherence'. I was writing a qualification and was stuck for a word to describe that Eureka moment when it all comes together - and I was stuck badly. So, as a place holder, I wrote candidates must demonstrate sonic coherence .......... and I forgot to change it. It was being demonstrated in the UK for 5 years, by students at colleges and university. Not one person ever asked the exam board what it meant! These are the flowery descriptive words only the originator understands. A chap on Youtube compares microphones. His favourite word for some is 'papery' as in, this one sounds rather papery. I decided to test it out and used it in a forum post and again, nobody ever asked. I'm sure everyone nodded their heads and took their own understanding. My advice is never use words you cannot describe. Saying somebody else said it means you didn't understand, but wrote it in the rule book as a definition. Bass flutes are multiphonic. No. They're not. Theyre also not even a common instrument because they lack power and depth - but always sound 'windy' - which in this circumstance is what you are after. If a couple of trumpets start to play, the bass flautist might as well go home.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay thanks. I didn't intend to use the word multiphonic to impress, it was the word I was told by someone when I asked about it, so I was quoting them. My mistake. And yes, I wouldn't have the flute play the same time, as a trumpet for example.

I just wanted a low flute for some of the more quiet moments.

The effect you did is similar to what I am going for yes. The flute I heard on The Replacement Killers after doing more research is possibly a Bass native American flute. I am having trouble finding good samples for that instrument, but if I cannot find any, I might just settle for a bass flute instead, since it still producers a low flute like sound, nonetheless, or so I was thinking.

[Paul R Johnson]

You're going about this very oddly Ryan. You're hung up on names, and many are names of convenience - A bass Native American flute. Or a panpipe, or an ocarina. I'm not sure there is a bass version of the Native American flute? There are certainly different size ones, but 'bass' is a contemporary tag applied to lower range instruments. Flute, or pipe? end excited flute, like a recorder, or cross excited like a flute - one has a labium, one doesn't (if you want to be technical) Realistically, it doesn't matter. The example I quickly recorded is actually more a mistake - I'm not a good flautist at all, and my tone goes windy by mistake quite easily.

I'm worried you are looking for complete samples and not musical samples? If you want a sound effect - then those are often called samples, and if you Google flute sample, you get a pile of random notes, separately recorded. I don't have any of these - I have proper musical samplers. Hundreds, or even thousands of individual samples that a player app puts together and switches between then seamlessly? These can be played. Individual samples are just effects and can't be played musically with any real success.

If your composer uses Kontakt instruments, he will need them in a certain format, but they are NOT universal. What are you using for these samples, because in the musicians world there are so, so many - I bet you are not looking for the right thing. Samples are a pain - in the office today I tried to load up some sounds that weren't on the machine, so if you want to swap files around between you and your composer, you both need the same packages.

Tell me about how you are doing these sample experiments.

You also say you won't have the flute play at the same time as a trumpet - but that isn't how you play music is it. How many well known pieces of music have a rule that says when a trumpet starts, something else stops? You are thinking about an entire orchestra and haven't any clue about balance and blend. This is way, way too difficult unless you are already a musician. If you aren't, why are you even doing this. You need to stop wanting to be a one man band, and get involved in every process. It's silly!

[Ryan Elder]

Oh well I thought it was normal for the director to give the composer temp tracks, of what they want the music to sound like, and go over what is it about the temp tracks that they like for the composer, thus in thi case the low flute sound.

Do directors not do that with a composer?

[Brian Drysdale]

Yes and no, but they don't go into the detail you do, it's more about mood and various other things. The composer doesn't really need to have a detailed breakdown on the instruments it's more about what you're trying to emotionally convey at any point in the story and if the music can assist in doing this.

Also, underline anything that isn't coming across visually, action or performance wise.

[Paul R Johnson]

You had that idea about pan pipes, and clearly that's where the flute idea cam from - but the composer needs the idea - in fact giving them a clip and saying you like the effect at say 3:01 is more useful than doing research into what it is, or probably isn't. What concerns me is that your composer seems so 'uncomposer-ish'

Remember that if you are unable to pay the real rate for the job, they will need to feel free to do what they do best, and you sound very difficult to work for? You want them to have a free hand but must incorporate all those disparate instruments - orchestra, synth, electric guitar and now unusual instruments like bass flutes. The fact that they don't appear in the popular mainstream packages show you how unusual they are? Musicians, actors, singers dancers, lighting designers and composers are all used to working to vague and unprofessionally explained briefs - they hate people muscling in on their world with detailed suggestions as most times it's clear it won't work, or worse, be impossible to dovetail in with the rest.

I remember having to not laugh when a Theatre Director was talking to internationally famous Lighting Designer Patrick Woodroffe. He nodded a lot, appeared to be listening, and despite all the clever technical talk, he just said "So you'd like it to be more Pink?". Pink wasn't a colour, it was a mood. The Director was so pleased he got it. Yes! That's it. The end product was more blue, more purple and a bit of yellow. No Pink. Director was happy.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay thanks. But are the sounds I want for the mood and the score, really so unsual, since I have heard those sounds in other movies? And yes, I would have to order library music samples of the instruments from other packages for it the composer, butI don't mind. But there movie soundtracks where the composers have no problem having certain instruments that are not the most mainstream, so I thought this was normal, when it comes to other movies. I mean if other movies have a low bass type flute in, why is that a complication to want to do as well?

[Paul R Johnson]

Ryan - music is NOT sound effects. I can't do anything with a client who provides sound effects. Musicians do NOT use sound effects, they use sound samples that they can play - quietly, loudly, rhythmically dis-rhythmically, layered, isolated, detuned, blended, stretched and shrunk. Do you ever look at the suggestions I post. Look at British Drama Toolkit from Spitfire. Watch the video, watch how they create sounds you hear on TV and film and how those sounds are created. You are thinking sound effects all the time, and they are nothing to do with composition. For goodness sake - if you have a composer, and like certain types of sound, let the poor man work with musical tools.

Watch the clips of how Hans Zimmer composes, or Vangelis, or Morricone or even John Williams and others - they use music, not an off the shelf clip of a flute going woooooof.

You've got totally and utterly the wrong impression of what composition is all about. Composers sit with a clip maybe, or often just the written paperwork saying what happens and they get musical ideas, like an artists sketch pad.

if you gave me a sound effect, I could work with it and perhaps treat it, or probably re-sample it, but why would I need to - I'd just do what I did with that flute - play it's lowest note, discover I needed to go lower and make it happen. If I played you a low note from a bass flute, could you tell it wasn't an alto flute (much more likely to be what a flautist actually has) and sometimes a bassoon can sound like a low flute. In fact, sometimes low woodwinds are almost impossible to tell apart. I have never, in over 40 years of playing instruments ever held, or even seen a bass flute. I've heard them on recordings and seen them on video, but I've never seen a bass saxophone either. Bass clarinets I've seen, but never played - I did own a baritone sax, but it's value was so high, and usage so low, I took the money!

I'm sorry Ryan, but you really don't understand the music side of this business at all. If your composer is decent, and frankly I am wonderings now, this is all very personal to him. I cannot tell him what equipment and sample instruments (not effects) he should have because his needs will be different to mine, but you don't trust him, and as he's not already exploded or walked away, I'm left believing he's musically not up to this either if he has not said exactly what I have said to you in person. I know some very, very talented people in this field - and they simply would not work with you, as you're doing everything very, very strangely.

I've read over and over the topic you and Brian are doing about the script, and it's way out of my comfort area now, but it looks very much like this one - you rejecting everything and trying to justify your strange choices. Some people can not do every role they want to, no matter how hard they try!