Is it possible to make instruments sound natural through audio editing like this?

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Film the movie then compose the music to support the mood and action of the scenes. What could be simpler?

Two words: Bass Flute! For Ryan Out Loudddddddd! I mean we can talk about the manner he is supplying the copy paste suggestions to his composer...

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

You didn't say that earlier, you said you picked the instrument, not him. You also repeatedly talked just about the instrument and only in the latest Clint Eastwood clips did you mention anything about playing styles. Like when you said you wanted a cello - why? What for, as in purpose? Schindler's list can work brilliantly on a cello, oboe, clarinet or even disco synthesiser, when played with care, sensitivity and passion.

Perhaps I am not explaining well enough. If you search the net for MIDI files, most computers will attempt too play them. The Morricone stuff is there, produced by wonderful musicians AND musical incompetents. I just turned the TV on and Karate Kid is on - the music was pan flute and strings, with sea shore effects - so almost anything can fit if a musician is involved. My favourite score has to be Blade Runner. Hardly a real instrument to be heard. A great Director, but I bet he never asked Vangellis to stick a bass flute in that!

Oh well what I mean is, I will ask the composer what instrument this is in the sample, he will tell me, and then I will tell him that is what I want, if he thinks that's good. So I will allow him to suggest something possibly better too that I might like.

For the cello, I just thought it would be good for the types of music I want, and in the examples, I gave the composer there is a cello in them, so I thought a cello would work played in a similar context. There will be other instruments too of course, but I mentioned cello before as an example as one of the in the context that I would like.

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

Film the movie then compose the music to support the mood and action of the scenes. What could be simpler?

Two words: Bass Flute! For Ryan Out Loudddddddd! I mean we can talk about the manner he is supplying the copy paste suggestions to his composer...

The bass flute has been brought up a lot on here, so is just a really bad instrument to pick most of the time, or what is the problem with it? Some of the example tracks I gave the composer as to what I am looking for have a bass flute in them. So the composer can make it his own of course, but thought I would still give him the tracks and say I want sounds like that, for him to take it and make it his own. Unless that's bad, or the bass flute sounds I want are bad?

[Paul R Johnson]

There is NOTHING wrong with a bass flute if it fits.

YouTube (Short URL)

It's a bit unusual, that's all, and might work fine - if it fits the action. There are however, loads of other intruments so why pick this one seemingly at random.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh well I wanted a flute sound that sounds like this and played in this type of tone, context and feeling, at 0:38 into this example:

The Replacement Killers soundtrack part 3 - YouTube

I was told that that flute is a bass native American flute. But I couldn't find sample tracks of that particular flute so far. But it seemed to me that the bass flute is the closest flute to sounding like that, that I could find. And the composer already has samplesof it. So I thought that might be a good choice for that type of flute sound and feeling, played in a similar context. But I would want the composer to make it his own of course too, and not copy exactly of course.

[Greg Miller]

Ryan didn't even realize that didgeridoo was a joke.

I hope his "composer" is getting paid by the hour, and keeping track of every phone call and conversation. He could retire before Ryan gets his film finished.

Ryan does seem to be making progress. After years of starting every post with "Oh, OK..." he is now sometimes starting with "Oh well..." That shows a spark of creativity ... maybe there is hope after all.

[Ryan Elder]

Yeah I realized the didgeridoo was most likely a joke, so I jokingly said back it's not for me.

[Paul R Johnson]

So NOT a bass flute at all then Ryan. The sound at 38 seconds fits really well, and is really common in the basic packages that most composers have, and if your composer has logic, he certainly already has it, but it is not in the menus as a bass flute! If you give him that clip, and mention the flutey sound at 38, he will know what you mean. That sound is available as a preset in at least three of my instruments. Your lack of musical experience has had us on a wild goose chase for dozens of posts. Joking aside, many packages do digeredoos quite badly, and some present the basic sound as something that is tuned. These can then be played normally, which can sound great, but really is a totally new instrument, because real ones cannot play melodies, sampled ones can.

PS a Native American bass flute is not a bass flute. Strictly speaking a Native American flute is note even a flute, it’s more akin to a recorder. The differences between musical instruments are quite important. Scottish bagpipes and Gaelic pipes are different, cellos and double basses are tuned differently, so open strings sound different, and double basses come in different sizes as in a jazz double bass is smaller than an orchestral double bass, so sound different too.

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

So NOT a bass flute at all then Ryan. The sound at 38 seconds fits really well, and is really common in the basic packages that most composers have, and if your composer has logic, he certainly already has it, but it is not in the menus as a bass flute! If you give him that clip, and mention the flutey sound at 38, he will know what you mean. That sound is available as a preset in at least three of my instruments. Your lack of musical experience has had us on a wild goose chase for dozens of posts. Joking aside, many packages do digeredoos quite badly, and some present the basic sound as something that is tuned. These can then be played normally, which can sound great, but really is a totally new instrument, because real ones cannot play melodies, sampled ones can.

PS a Native American bass flute is not a bass flute. Strictly speaking a Native American flute is note even a flute, it’s more akin to a recorder. The differences between musical instruments are quite important. Scottish bagpipes and Gaelic pipes are different, cellos and double basses are tuned differently, so open strings sound different, and double basses come in different sizes as in a jazz double bass is smaller than an orchestral double bass, so sound different too.

Oh okay. Well even if a native American bass flute is not flute, it still has a sound similar to some flutes, which is why I was searching flutes. When you say a native American flute is more like a recorder, what type of recording device do you mean?

As for cellos being differently tuned, I gave the composer examples of the the cello sounds I wanted more so.

[Paul R Johnson]

Ryan - try to keep up. A recorder is a flute family musical instrument. The type where airflow is diverted by a sharp edge.

I did not say a native American flute is not a flute, its a different type of flute. Forget everything I have said - I thought you understood music to a level where we could be accurate. Clearly we can't. A cello playing low does not sound like a double bass playing high. A bass flute (a real orchestral one) does not sound like an orchestral flute playing low, and a bass range wooden flute from America does not sound like one from Africa when American or Africans play them differently.

Do you have the vocabulary to communicate effectively with your composer about music? Saying cello - means nothing at all really, other than a low string instrument.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

When you say a native American flute is more like a recorder, what type of recording device do you mean?

wow

Anyone else get the feeling Ryan throws around terms or talks about higher level concepts to make it sound like he either knows more than he does or that project is more professional than it really is? Does this composer exist or is this like when someone says their "friend" has a problem but it's really them.

Ryan do you ever listen to what we are saying? The particular instruments are not important. You get everything backwards. The director job is to film the movie and then communicate to the composer the story and mood he wants the music to convey. You might suggest to him you would like a grand orchestral score like Ennio Morricone but you wouldn't hand pick instrument that you copied from scenes of other movies.

It's clear you don't have any background in music stop with this crazy copy paste method of yours.

[Greg Miller]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

When you say a native American flute is more like a recorder, what type of recording device do you mean?

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

wow

Anyone else get the feeling Ryan throws around terms or talks about higher level concepts to make it sound like he either knows more than he does or that project is more professional than it really is? Does this composer exist or is this like when someone says their "friend" has a problem but it's really them.

I have long had the feeling that Ryan is a precocious 5th grade kid, who has read everything he can get his hands on, but actually doesn't have a clue what the words mean. Now he's here, starting these absurd threads, trying to fool everyone into thinking he's an adult. And apparently he's succeeding, because he keeps getting replies.

[Josh Bass]

I have long wondered why people DO keep replying, especially the long detailed posts that must have taken at least 5-10 minutes each to formulate. Some have mentioned its something to do to kill time while waiting for a render etc., but over time, I found that even as a waste of time, it was a waste of time, and so mostly only pop in with a short quip now and again, rest of the time just sit back with my popcorn and watch.

[Paul R Johnson]

I think it's a sort of quest. Ryan has such a thick skin, nothing we say sinks in, but there is a glimmer of hope, and above all, he's mega keen. So many forum members see his name and run a mile, while all Ryan topics now have a resident panel to answer his questions, without annoying everyone else, who just don't even read them any more.

I know he's going to ignore everything before I post, but there is a tiny, small, teeny-weeny chance something will sink in. The trouble with this one is it is not just technical skills, or background knowledge - you cannot fake musicianship. Blagging music never works. Once you are outside your comfort zone, you sink rapidly.

When I was a teacher, the really good students just needed a gentle nudge and basic skills input then they were off. That's not that rewarding. Being around when the Eureka moment happens is quite exciting and there is always the possibility Ryan will suddenly get it. Not happened yet, but we'll keep going.It's also nice to have the small regular group who seem to work together rather well. Just think if we were all in the same place - we'd make a brilliant team on a project. Ryan could make the coffee.

[Brian Drysdale]

Certainly this thread on instruments has involved more discussion on the subject than I had with an actual composer and that includes him asking me to come and listen to a particular Yamaha piano to get my feelings on its tone.

It's far too early for this type of detailed discussions on a film that hasn't yet gone into production.