Should the pitch in the voice be changed with slow motion dialogue? at DVinfo.net

Ryan Elder · September 3rd, 2020, 11:22 PM

If you want to do a shot in slow motion but a person is speaking, should the pitch of their voice be changed as well? This of course can sound cheesy. But if you don't change the pitch is it weird to have a normal dialog pitch if the video is in slow motion?

One movie I can think of that has slow motion is Parasite, in this clip at 2:25 into the clip:

But how do they do that without it coming of as strange that the pitch hasnt' changed?

Brian Drysdale · September 4th, 2020, 12:51 AM

You don't need to use the original sound, just get the actor to say the dialogue slowly in post and replace the original audio. Film making is about cheating.

Ryan Elder · September 4th, 2020, 07:15 AM

Oh sure I can do that. I was just wondering how it should sound to the audience, pitch wise, in terms of what would come off as natural.

Brian Drysdale · September 4th, 2020, 07:17 AM

If it sounds and looks right to you, the audience should follow. unless you're totally lacking in judgment.

Paul R Johnson · September 4th, 2020, 12:15 PM

I've never seen that movie and my God, is it really that bad all the way through? Seriously - Brian is correct as usual - you create what you need to make it work. I doubt much of that scene has recorded audio from the recording - it sounds fake, and quite averagely done too. If you halve the speed, that's not exactly very slow motion, but the impact on audio is severe, so it's a re-record. Remember Alvin and the Chipmunks - that was a doubling when using the real performers and a bit less with female performers as in the later stuff. half is pretty average slo-mo isn't it!

Ryan Elder · September 4th, 2020, 04:03 PM

Oh okay, then thanks, I can do it that way. Thanks.

How slow is that slow motion then in terms of fps?

As for if the movie is that bad all the way through, it depends on how you define bad, I guess.

Greg Smith · September 4th, 2020, 05:51 PM

I find that audiences prefer when I adjust the pitch back to normal in slow motion shots - especially if recognizable voices are involved.

However, the pitch adjustment tools in most NLEs aren't that great. The sound often takes on a harsh, metallic quality. In particular, I find the pitch correction in Premiere to be just barely OK for technical/instructional/ENG types of footage, but it would be completely unacceptable for a feature film. (Most of my slomo is at 1/2 to 1/4 real speed.) You may have to experiment with a few audio editors to find one that doesn't have unpleasant and unrealistic artifacts.

Or, as has been suggested, treat it as ADR and record later.

Ryan Elder · September 4th, 2020, 10:29 PM

Oh okay thanks. Yes, I have played with the pitchshifter in Premiere Pro as well and also find it has a metallic quality too it. It's just whenever I have done ADR in the past, it could never match so I am reluctant, unless it's a last resort, or at least need to figure out how match it better.

Paul R Johnson · September 4th, 2020, 11:44 PM

Ha! I never even knew premiere could pitch shift! I always use cubase for this, as for the past few versions it's pitch shift ability has been really good.

Brian Drysdale · September 5th, 2020, 01:37 AM

The example you've given would be pretty simple to match up.

A number of feature films have a lot of ADR and get away with it. I've done it manually editing on 16mm film and it works to a satisfactory level. .

It depends on what you mean by match. I know some people obsess about precisely matching waveforms when syncing up sound and picture when using the camera audio as a sync reference with an external recorder. When, in practice, all you need is the waveforms to be within the same frame for things to be in sync. Also, you don't use the camera audio, since it's poor quality.

Ryan Elder · September 5th, 2020, 01:46 AM

Oh okay, it's just in the past, I have had trouble trying to match with ADR. For example in this clip, I have had directing the actors to match it, or maybe I just need to develop my directing skills with that? It happens at 9:28 into the video:

Brian Drysdale · September 5th, 2020, 02:07 AM

When I did it the old fashioned way, I was replacing the original actor's voice and a couple of words. I played back the original audio to the person re-voicing through headphones.and repeated this until it was close enough. This was called looping in the past for a good reason.

It was fine tuned during the edit by removing the odd frame.

Paul R Johnson · September 5th, 2020, 09:47 AM

Cubase, my favourite for music has the ability to take a clip - and then take different versions of the same part and then adjust it to fit. Musically, lets say you have 5 BVs and they should all be singing exactly the same, but you discover they all have slight differences - maybe in the gaps, or the phrasing. You designate one as master, and then the others get stretched and shrunk to fit. You can take the compromised audio shot on location, designate it as master, and then the replacement dialogue you recorded at the replacement session gets wrangled to fit. As an ADR tool, it's great. It needs a clearly defined audio file, but doesn't seem to worry too much about background noises as long as the peaks in the voice are distinct.

Ryan Elder · September 5th, 2020, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

When I did it the old fashioned way, I was replacing the original actor's voice and a couple of words. I played back the original audio to the person re-voicing through headphones.and repeated this until it was close enough. This was called looping in the past for a good reason.

It was fine tuned during the edit by removing the odd frame.

When you say you fine tune it by removing the odd frame, wouldn't the removed frame be visible in the editing because you would see that there is a missing frame?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

Cubase, my favourite for music has the ability to take a clip - and then take different versions of the same part and then adjust it to fit. Musically, lets say you have 5 BVs and they should all be singing exactly the same, but you discover they all have slight differences - maybe in the gaps, or the phrasing. You designate one as master, and then the others get stretched and shrunk to fit. You can take the compromised audio shot on location, designate it as master, and then the replacement dialogue you recorded at the replacement session gets wrangled to fit. As an ADR tool, it's great. It needs a clearly defined audio file, but doesn't seem to worry too much about background noises as long as the peaks in the voice are distinct.

When you say different versions of the same part, do you mean different 'takes'?

Brian Drysdale · September 5th, 2020, 03:05 PM

Don't you think before you reply? The odd frame in the audio.

September 3rd, 2020, 11:22 PM	#1
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Should the pitch in the voice be changed with slow motion dialogue? If you want to do a shot in slow motion but a person is speaking, should the pitch of their voice be changed as well? This of course can sound cheesy. But if you don't change the pitch is it weird to have a normal dialog pitch if the video is in slow motion? One movie I can think of that has slow motion is Parasite, in this clip at 2:25 into the clip: Parasite - Dasong’s Birthday Party (HD) (SPOILERS) - YouTube But how do they do that without it coming of as strange that the pitch hasnt' changed?

September 4th, 2020, 12:51 AM	#2
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Should the pitch in the voice be changed with slow motion dialogue? You don't need to use the original sound, just get the actor to say the dialogue slowly in post and replace the original audio. Film making is about cheating.

September 4th, 2020, 07:15 AM	#3
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Should the pitch in the voice be changed with slow motion dialogue? Oh sure I can do that. I was just wondering how it should sound to the audience, pitch wise, in terms of what would come off as natural.

September 4th, 2020, 07:17 AM	#4
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Should the pitch in the voice be changed with slow motion dialogue? If it sounds and looks right to you, the audience should follow. unless you're totally lacking in judgment.

September 4th, 2020, 12:15 PM	#5
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Re: Should the pitch in the voice be changed with slow motion dialogue? I've never seen that movie and my God, is it really that bad all the way through? Seriously - Brian is correct as usual - you create what you need to make it work. I doubt much of that scene has recorded audio from the recording - it sounds fake, and quite averagely done too. If you halve the speed, that's not exactly very slow motion, but the impact on audio is severe, so it's a re-record. Remember Alvin and the Chipmunks - that was a doubling when using the real performers and a bit less with female performers as in the later stuff. half is pretty average slo-mo isn't it!

September 4th, 2020, 04:03 PM	#6
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Should the pitch in the voice be changed with slow motion dialogue? Oh okay, then thanks, I can do it that way. Thanks. How slow is that slow motion then in terms of fps? As for if the movie is that bad all the way through, it depends on how you define bad, I guess.

September 4th, 2020, 05:51 PM	#7
Greg Smith Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Champaign, IL Posts: 86	Re: Should the pitch in the voice be changed with slow motion dialogue? I find that audiences prefer when I adjust the pitch back to normal in slow motion shots - especially if recognizable voices are involved. However, the pitch adjustment tools in most NLEs aren't that great. The sound often takes on a harsh, metallic quality. In particular, I find the pitch correction in Premiere to be just barely OK for technical/instructional/ENG types of footage, but it would be completely unacceptable for a feature film. (Most of my slomo is at 1/2 to 1/4 real speed.) You may have to experiment with a few audio editors to find one that doesn't have unpleasant and unrealistic artifacts. Or, as has been suggested, treat it as ADR and record later.

September 4th, 2020, 10:29 PM	#8
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Should the pitch in the voice be changed with slow motion dialogue? Oh okay thanks. Yes, I have played with the pitchshifter in Premiere Pro as well and also find it has a metallic quality too it. It's just whenever I have done ADR in the past, it could never match so I am reluctant, unless it's a last resort, or at least need to figure out how match it better.

September 4th, 2020, 11:44 PM	#9
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Re: Should the pitch in the voice be changed with slow motion dialogue? Ha! I never even knew premiere could pitch shift! I always use cubase for this, as for the past few versions it's pitch shift ability has been really good.

September 5th, 2020, 01:37 AM	#10
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Should the pitch in the voice be changed with slow motion dialogue? The example you've given would be pretty simple to match up. A number of feature films have a lot of ADR and get away with it. I've done it manually editing on 16mm film and it works to a satisfactory level. . It depends on what you mean by match. I know some people obsess about precisely matching waveforms when syncing up sound and picture when using the camera audio as a sync reference with an external recorder. When, in practice, all you need is the waveforms to be within the same frame for things to be in sync. Also, you don't use the camera audio, since it's poor quality.

September 5th, 2020, 01:46 AM	#11
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Should the pitch in the voice be changed with slow motion dialogue? Oh okay, it's just in the past, I have had trouble trying to match with ADR. For example in this clip, I have had directing the actors to match it, or maybe I just need to develop my directing skills with that? It happens at 9:28 into the video: Timewine H.264 copy - YouTube

September 5th, 2020, 02:07 AM	#12
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Should the pitch in the voice be changed with slow motion dialogue? When I did it the old fashioned way, I was replacing the original actor's voice and a couple of words. I played back the original audio to the person re-voicing through headphones.and repeated this until it was close enough. This was called looping in the past for a good reason. It was fine tuned during the edit by removing the odd frame.

September 5th, 2020, 09:47 AM	#13
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Re: Should the pitch in the voice be changed with slow motion dialogue? Cubase, my favourite for music has the ability to take a clip - and then take different versions of the same part and then adjust it to fit. Musically, lets say you have 5 BVs and they should all be singing exactly the same, but you discover they all have slight differences - maybe in the gaps, or the phrasing. You designate one as master, and then the others get stretched and shrunk to fit. You can take the compromised audio shot on location, designate it as master, and then the replacement dialogue you recorded at the replacement session gets wrangled to fit. As an ADR tool, it's great. It needs a clearly defined audio file, but doesn't seem to worry too much about background noises as long as the peaks in the voice are distinct.

September 5th, 2020, 03:05 PM	#15
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Should the pitch in the voice be changed with slow motion dialogue? Don't you think before you reply? The odd frame in the audio.