The fader on my field recorder does not have numbers, does anyone know?

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay so when it was recommended to me before to get a pad, then a pad will not fix the problem at all, of needing to get closer to the gun without clipping then you are saying?

[Brian Drysdale]

You have to think of two things; the setting the level for the recorder - the pad is part of this, then if the mic itself is distorting from too loud a sound.from the gun shot. For that you need to ensure that you're not too close or directly in the path of the blast with the mic, so that mic is working below its max sound level.

Again, you need to test with the gun to find the sweet spot.

[Paul R Johnson]

No - I am saying that a pad will give you a gain knob on the recorder that has some adjustment, and not be on the first 3 mm of the fader knob. This won't stop the mic distorting. However don't fret, because with your gunshot transient, the distortion is very short lived and probably not that noticeable. Just remember the pad drops the mics high output to something lower, so the gain control has a bigger range of adjustment. Most decent mixers and recorders have pads. On my Midas mixer, the preamps are quite nice and you'd be surprised how simple the pad operation is. Lets say you stick a mic an inch or two from the snare drum skin, and it's a loud drummer. You say play - he goes bang bang bang..... If the red light comes on, you bass the pad, the light goes out and the level drops - you then bring the gain up to where the red light comes on again, then back off 15 degrees or so. That's it. When you get to a vocal mic, there's nothing on the meter at all, but you notice the pad is in - so you bash the button and the level pops up, and you bring the gain up till it goes red, then back off again. If this means channel 1 is pad in, gain very low and channel 2 is pad out, gain high - it doesn't matter.

Your gunshot is just a loud sound - if you go in close and it goes bang and the meter goes red, and that's with the gain knob already low, then you NEED a pad. pop in 20dB or so and you have headroom again.

My own rule (I don't have many) is that you never use your best mics on sound sources that don't deserve it.

This means for me, that just a few mics will be off the list for a gunshot - but most are tough things.

I still think that your quest for realism is wrong here, because people expect guns to sound like movie guns, and like tyre squeals, they're just parodies of the real sound. If you have ever worked on OBs, you'll be surprised that horse racing is often cheated - the sound people used to spend ages putting microphones out around racecourses and then the sound op would need to wrangle the faders to follow the horses galloping. Now they just press a button and fade in an edited loop of hooves on grass. Apparently the sound of hoof hotting grass changes depending on the ground condition - soft - heavy etc. When they changed to pre-recorded galloping sounds, nobody noticed.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay thanks. That's what I thought you meant that the pad would give an extra 20 db, or so, of more room.

I know that gunshots sound different in real life, but I thought I could still use the real gunshot as a baseline though then add more effects to it after. Plus I also wanted to learn how to record loud percussive sounds for the experience as well.

But should I just create the gun shot an entirely different way? I could use package, effects, I guess I am just worried that it may come off as stock sounds. For example, if you put in bullet casings and blood splatter, from action essentials, you know that it looks fake, because it's stock effects, so I thought that it may read as stock effects with sound as well, if I am using a package that so many others would be using.

[Brian Drysdale]

Library gun sound effects are often recorded from the real thing. Commonly they will tell you which weapon is being used. If you wish to add to it that's up to you.

When you get the effects there will be wide range of options, the good ones will also include bullet casings hitting the floor and other mechanical sounds. Blood spatter is an unlikely sound in a realistic gun battle, it's more stylized thing, so you can use any suitable sound of a liquid

The idea is that you don't need to spend hours recording particular effects,

If they sound like stock effects, it's more a reflection on your selection than the effects themselves.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay. Is it perhaps easier to sell people on sound effects being done in post, compared to visual effects? For example the blood splatter from a gunshot done in post can look fake, like it's obvious CGI, but are sound effects able to fool people more, compared to visual?

[Paul R Johnson]

Like everything Ryan, people only notice anything when done badly. There will always be those who include these things on movie trivia pages, but even though I know some things are fake, I don't pay any attention. Have you noticed in sci fi movies we accept some things because they are 'right'? When a space ship explodes we hear the bang and the other ships rock. Staple sci fi action. Even scientists watch the movies without shouting about this being stupid. You will have far more trouble with cheap CGi.

Ps the rather good BBC sound effects library has plenty of gun shots and they are free at the moment.

[Brian Drysdale]

Visual effects are different animals to sound effects. The cost in creating them are a lot higher for a start and if they are free, the creator may not have the large amount of time invested in them required to pull them off in each scenario.

Back in the day (1960s and 70s) when they made TV dramas in TV studios shooting as if live using video cameras, without any post production sound, the most unimpressive things were the fights. They sounded just like some people falling over the furniture because there wasn't any punch effects etc. Shots from a pistol were also rather unimpressive.

However, I rather suspect they were closer to audio reality than what you get in modern dramas, with all the audio sweetening.

Films, by that stage, had spent many years doing post production sound, so had much more impressive sound on their fights and other action.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay. I can try sound effects from the BBC then. Thanks!

When it comes to punching sound effects, I wanted some of those as well. Would these types of punching sound effects sound TOO exaggerated, or this good?

Viktor Rosta? Kuda?!? Виктор Ð*оÑ�та? Куда?!? - YouTube

[Brian Drysdale]

The type of sound effect used for punches will depend on the nature of the film, what works in a comic hero movie won't work on a piece of social realism.

Again, if you'll want to be a director you need to learn judgment, If you can't work out the type of punch effect is best for your film you should give up on the whole idea. I would also give up on being a sound mixer on films, because that job also requires the same type of judgment.

[Paul R Johnson]

Do you want your movie to sound ridiculous? Did they do those on a budget? As in here's $10 don't spend it all on sound effect samples. The same one, over and over again. Everything is massively OTT, and next time you are in the shower, punch yourself in the thigh where the muscles are and see what noise it really makes. Then think back to Arnold. Timing wise, they're great - just ridiculous sounding.

[Greg Miller]

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

Your gunshot is just a loud sound -

Like the screaming of the people who are following this thread.

Ryan, you have another thread going, where you ask us "Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?" That question is laughable. Look at the 12 pages and 177 posts in this present "fader" thread. OK, subtract 10% for various tangential comments by others. Consider how many multiple times you've asked the same question, someone has answered, and you've said "Oh, OK..." and then asked it again. IMHO, this might indicate you overthink things. ;)

[Pete Cofrancesco]

oh ok this thread was started 3 months ago about faders that was really an excuse to overthink gun shots, how record them despite everyone saying you should use a professionally recording. For Ryan Outloud!!!!!!

[Josh Bass]

For Ryan Outloud should be his screen name on this site. The one exception to the real names thing.

[Paul R Johnson]

Here's a link to a few maybe useful SFX

BBC Sound Effects Archive Resource ? Research & Education Space