Do lavs work at all outside in a city, or not really?

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, well I think I would understand a lot better if it wasn't for some of terminology. I do not understand what terms like 'dreaded hole' means. But I would understand the concepts I think if worded or explained in a more specific way :).

[Greg Miller]

Ryan, there are a number of good books about audio, and specifically audio as related to video production. I think you (and some of us, too) would be much better off if you would buy one and read it thoroughly. Instead of coming here and asking absolutely beginner level questions, and trying to comprehend the answers, you would know a lot of the basics and could then come here with intermediate level questions and have some understanding of the answers. For example you would know what M-S stereo is ... a very basic concept that you could find in any decent book about audio recording. You would know about "hole in the middle." There's an old saying that applies to you: "You don't know what you don't know." This stuff is not rocket science ... it is very basic audio knowledge; I can modestly say that I knew this stuff by junior high school, because I was curious and went to the library. So if you really want to learn about audio, do a little bit of the work yourself: get a good book and read it. (Or, if you just want to debate and disagree with people, keep on doing what you've been doing.)

I strongly recommend books written by Jay Rose. IIRC he has covered location sound recording, post production, and maybe some other aspects as well. I know I have seen his books available on eBay. (Jay has his own website, jayrose.com ... check it out!) I'll bet other people in this forum, who are trying (probably with a fair amount of frustration) to help you understand this stuff, will second my suggestion.

Based on your usual reaction to advice here, I'd say the greatest probability is that you will point out why reading these books would be a bad idea. Next lower probability is that you will completely ignore the topic of books in your response, and change the subject. Lowest probability: I will be absolutely amazed if you agree that reading these books would be a good idea; and even more amazed if you actually do it (as opposed to saying you're going to do this, but then in reality doing nothing).

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay thanks. I have a book an audio editing, and I should get one on audio recording as well.

By hole in the middle, this is just a guess, but does that mean in a 2.0 stereo mix, where there is a speaker to the left, and one to the right, but the middle section is missing a speaker. Is that what that means? That's just a guess.

[Greg Miller]

Why not look it up? Are you trying to prove you're not capable of doing anything for yourself?

[Ryan Elder]

Sure, I looked it up, and here is the definition I got

"hole-in-the-middle effect: An undesirable effect due to an extreme angle used with a coincident pair where the stereo image is all left and right, with very little sound in the center. Or, a similar phenomenon created by a surround system where the loudspeakers are too far apart to deliver balanced sound adequately to all seats in a theater."

That kind of sounds like what I thought it meant.

But this seems to be about post mixing. What does a stereo mic have to do with the hole in the middle, since the mic is 2 channel stereo, and therefore, has no middle channel? What does a 2 channel mic have to do with the hole in the middle when it comes to post mixing?

[Greg Miller]

No, that answer isn't about post mixing. It's about microphone placement and loudspeaker placement. In terms of recording, the answer is in the first sentence of your quote.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, but in that quote, I thought they were talking about when the movie is finished and is being played through speakers. Isn't that at a post stage, compared to mic placement, since the movie is already finished by then?

[Greg Miller]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

the mic is 2 channel stereo, and therefore, has no middle channel? What does a 2 channel mic have to do with the hole in the middle

What is an M/S mic? What does the "M" stand for?

[Greg Miller]

Are you trying to be intentionally obtuse? Or are you really completely and thoroughly confused about the entire audio process?

Please answer this question specifically. It has to be one or the other.

[Ryan Elder]

I'm confused about a few things that I wanted to ask about. That's all. Not trying to be obtuse intentionally.

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Greg Miller

What is an M/S mic? What does the "M" stand for?

It stands for mid.

[Greg Miller]

OK, so before we go any further with the details.

Here is one of Jay Rose's books, available used on eBay, for less than $5.00. Search eBay for this:
Producing Great Sound for Digital Video by Jay Rose

Will you give us your word that you will go to eBay right now, and order that book right now (there are several copies available)? Will you make that commitment? It's a simple yes or no answer.

[Greg Miller]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

It stands for mid.

I'll respond to that as soon as I see your answer about buying the book

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, sure I will do that.

[Greg Miller]

OK, Ryan, that's great! Thank you!

Go ahead and order it, don't put it off. I will be around here for a while. Come back after you've ordered the book, and I'll explain about the mics.