Question about a field recorder works in this case.

[Greg Miller]

That's entirely correct (in a simplified way), and that does apply to a lot of equipment.

However, ironically, it does not apply to this particular recorder.
From the FR2-LE manual, p.21:

"<Notes on using rechargeable Ni-Cd/Ni-MH batteries or a Tamiya battery>
The FR-2LE does not provide battery charging facility. To charge rechargeable Ni-Cd, Ni-MH
batteries or a Tamiya battery, use an appropriate battery charger for the battery type and
follow the instructions of the charger to fully charge batteries."

If we could look at the overall schematic for the unit, we might find a reason why 12V is more convenient than some other voltage would be. But, as I said earlier, the choice of voltage is unrelated to the fact that the recorder wasn't working with the previous AC adapter. And repeatedly asking WHY that voltage was chosen is entirely immaterial to solving the problem ... just a waste of time if your goal is to get it working again.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh okay, I thought maybe the 12 V vs 6V with batteries possibly held some sort of key to the problem, my mistake.

So now that I have tried a 12V adapter, and the battery indicator on screen says it's full now, does that mean it's working now?

[Greg Miller]

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

Oh okay, I thought maybe the 12 V vs 6V with batteries possibly held some sort of key to the problem, my mistake.

Then why did several of us repeatedly tell you it was NOT related? Obviously you know more about electronics than the rest of us combined.

[Ryan Elder]

Because a lot of people were saying I need 12V when it only seemed to take 6 from the batteries, so I was wondering why. I thought that that WHY, would help figure out the problem. The 12 V vs. 6V seemed like an inconsistency to me, and if I see an inconsistency, I feel it may be the key to the problem, since if it comes off as an inconsistency.

[Greg Miller]

I can't imagine why you'd think you know enough about electrical theory that you could figure it out.

Nor can I comprehend why you'd keep asking us when you don't believe us and continually ignore our advice.

[Ryan Elder]

Oh sorry, I didn't mean to give off the impression that anyone was wrong, I was just trying to look at anything to find out what it could be, that's all. That's why I asked. I wasn't meaning to imply people were wrong. Sorry. I was just not understanding some things about it and had to get some things straight which is why I asked. But all I asked is why does it say 12 when it takes six. That's not saying anyone as wrong, I was just asking to know more.

[Paul R Johnson]

Ryan has told us a few times that he is on the spectrum, but never explained any particular needs he has - which is a shame as we could probably understand better.

His responses when presented with comments about him personally, is to push it to one side and move on. Sadly, that's not a good coping mechanism when reacting to a text based communication system.

We do tend to be accepting and pretty nice, but it wears thin when he pushes and pushes, and despite saying "OK" actually dismisses good advice in favour of a different solution.

In a way, these huge topics, if edited contain quite a lot of useful stuff when viewed by a third party.

He simply drives us mad after a while and we have to stand in a dark room to recover for a while.

[Ryan Elder]

Hey sorry about that. Did not intend to drive anyone mad. Perhaps I just try to take in information on all areas to try to solve the problem instead of focusing on the advice in one particular area. Sorry about that. I do sincerely appreciate all the advice and it has been very helpful. I did not intend to come off as trolling, and I'm sorry if I have.

[Don Palomaki]

Greg: Sorry I missed your humor, a ";-)" might have flagged it for me.

Some serious information for Ryan:
Battery stated voltages are nominal and vary by the type; Alkaline are about 1.5 volts per cell. Li-Ion are about 3.6 volts per cell. NiMH and NiCd are about 1.2 volts per cell. The voltage will vary with the state of charge in the battery. Cells are stacked in a battery to get the output voltage. Thus the typical 7.2 volt consumer video camera battery is usually comprised of 2 Li-Ion cells, or perhaps 6 NiMH or NiCd cells.

A reason you select the battery type in the recorder is to ensure the low battery warning and battery level displays are triggered at the appropriate battery times/voltage. It may serve other purposes as well but that is not obvious from the available documentation.

Why 4 AA batteries (not 6 or 8 or some other number or size), why the 12 volt AC adapter, why the 7.2 volt Li-Ion option? These are design considerations some of which may include:
- how much power will the device need (volts and amps)
- what weight and bulk are users willing to carry (Using D cells would last a lot longer than AAs, but add a lot more weight and bulk. Voltage step-up circuits are smaller and lighter than additional batteries)
- what parts are readily available at what cost. If the mfgr. is already using the 12 volt adapter with other gear it may make sense to use it here as well rather than adding additional adapter types to stock.
- are there regulatory or insurance concerns? Things that plug into the wall outlet (e.g., the wall wart) may need UL, CSA, or CE listing, while the low voltage devices powered by them may not need it. Listings cost so it is more efficient/cost effective to list one wall wart rather than the 10+ things it might be used to power.
- in addition to the UL/CSA/CE listing question, adding built-in ac power capability to a portable device adds cost, bulk, and weight

All this is generally transparent to the end user. Just power and use the gear as intended and be happy in your work.

My gripe is I now have many wall warts of various sizes/ratings that came with gear ranging from recorders to routers to scanners to proc amps to you-name-it. In many cases they are generic and not labeled with the make/model of the device with which they came. I try make it a point to label them when I open the box to help keep them matched to the correct device.

[Rick Reineke]

"I now have many wall warts of various sizes/ratings that came with gear ranging from recorders to routers to scanners to proc amps to you-name-it. In many cases they are generic and not labeled with the make/model of the device with which they came. I try make it a point to label them when I open the box to help keep them matched to the correct device "

> +11 I write the voltage/amperage and/or the device the wall wart/ line lump belongs to with a paint pen or marker, so I can ID it at a glance, otherwise I usually need a magnifying glass to read the specs,.

[Greg Miller]

Don:
I hoped that anybody with some knowledge of electronics, and some recollection of the often technical nature of my posts, would realize I couldn't have been serious. An erroneous assumption on my part. Actually if somebody did find a way to "suck the electrons out of the battery" then I guess the whole battery would become positively charged in the sense of static electricity. (I loved playing with a Van de Graaff generator when I was a kid.)

I find a white paint pen is great for marking black wall warts. I don't have one in front of me so I can't tell you the brand, but a decent office supply store should have them.

Paul:
If Ryan is, in fact, "on the spectrum," then I wish someone would have mentioned that earlier in the thread. Not having heard that theory, my perception was that he was being willfully stubborn and intentionally refusing to respond to our specific comments and suggestions. I've seen similar behavior in boys around 6th grade age, being aggressively stubborn in order to defy the teacher. The only other example was an employee who acted that way if he was assigned a task that he didn't want to perform ... and I eventually fired him. Absent any actual medical information, I perceived Ryan's behavior the same way ... being willfully stubborn.

[Josh Bass]

its come up on other threads and I occasionally feel compelled to remind people.

[Rick Reineke]

Originally Posted by Greg Miller

I find a white paint pen is great for marking black wall warts. I don't have one in front of me so I can't tell you the brand, but a decent office supply store should have them.

> Most of the arts and crafts chain stores have paint pens as well. There are usually a variety of tip size an colors to choose from. .. Note: the low cost ones do not work very well, or for very long. So plan on spending 4 or $5 (been down that road already try'n to save a buck or two).
The gold and silver metallic Sharpies are good for writing on dark surfaces as well.

[Ryan Elder]

Originally Posted by Don Palomaki

Greg: Sorry I missed your humor, a ";-)" might have flagged it for me.

Some serious information for Ryan:
Battery stated voltages are nominal and vary by the type; Alkaline are about 1.5 volts per cell. Li-Ion are about 3.6 volts per cell. NiMH and NiCd are about 1.2 volts per cell. The voltage will vary with the state of charge in the battery. Cells are stacked in a battery to get the output voltage. Thus the typical 7.2 volt consumer video camera battery is usually comprised of 2 Li-Ion cells, or perhaps 6 NiMH or NiCd cells.

A reason you select the battery type in the recorder is to ensure the low battery warning and battery level displays are triggered at the appropriate battery times/voltage. It may serve other purposes as well but that is not obvious from the available documentation.

Why 4 AA batteries (not 6 or 8 or some other number or size), why the 12 volt AC adapter, why the 7.2 volt Li-Ion option? These are design considerations some of which may include:
- how much power will the device need (volts and amps)
- what weight and bulk are users willing to carry (Using D cells would last a lot longer than AAs, but add a lot more weight and bulk. Voltage step-up circuits are smaller and lighter than additional batteries)
- what parts are readily available at what cost. If the mfgr. is already using the 12 volt adapter with other gear it may make sense to use it here as well rather than adding additional adapter types to stock.
- are there regulatory or insurance concerns? Things that plug into the wall outlet (e.g., the wall wart) may need UL, CSA, or CE listing, while the low voltage devices powered by them may not need it. Listings cost so it is more efficient/cost effective to list one wall wart rather than the 10+ things it might be used to power.
- in addition to the UL/CSA/CE listing question, adding built-in ac power capability to a portable device adds cost, bulk, and weight

All this is generally transparent to the end user. Just power and use the gear as intended and be happy in your work.

My gripe is I now have many wall warts of various sizes/ratings that came with gear ranging from recorders to routers to scanners to proc amps to you-name-it. In many cases they are generic and not labeled with the make/model of the device with which they came. I try make it a point to label them when I open the box to help keep them matched to the correct device.

Oh okay thanks. Actually a guy I know showed me large heavy battery he has and said I could plug it into the adapter port, and then if I am out in the field, with no power plug in options just use this larger external battery so it doesn't go dead near as often as the AAs. This battery he has measures at 12V exactly, for the adapter port. Would that be a be a good idea to use this larger battery while outside, if it's 12V as well?

[Paul R Johnson]

I suppose it depends in how heavy the battery is, how easy it is to charge and how you will carry it. 12V is an odd voltage for a cell. 13.8V is more common, but as long as you can charge it, and the connector is secure. Sounds useful. Is it running time on the 1.5V cells that is worrying you?