Question about a field recorder works in this case.

Ryan Elder · February 10th, 2020, 10:01 PM

Oh okay, but I thought the problem was the adapter since a new adapter seems to work, or at least it's working a lot better than the old one, which wasn't working at all it seemed.

The batteries draining more possibly?

Well I checked with the mulitmeter just now. The adapter is 10V. Since the four batteries it uses without being plugged adds up to 6V, then would a 10V adapter be enough voltage then, since it exceeds that of the battery voltage?

Greg Miller · February 10th, 2020, 11:10 PM

That can't be determined with 100% certainty, because we don't know what power circuitry is inside the recorder. We also don't know whether the AC adapter you're using includes a voltage regulator, what the current capacity of the AC adapter is, or how much current the recorder needs.

Ryan, it is not my intention to try to give you a broad education in electronic theory. That is not practical, especially with someone whose attention to detail is as poor as yours is. It seems your level of competence is roughly figuring out how to install the batteries facing in the right direction. (And that's not a personal criticism ... everybody has to start somewhere ... it's just an observation.) Based on this and previous questions of yours, I'd say you are technically at a very elementary level. If you want to understand batteries and power supplies (as a very first starting point for electrical theory) I suggest you find a local mentor (a science teacher, a licensed amateur radio operator, whatever). That mentor will not be hampered by the medium of email, and will be able to actually *show* you things visually. If you pay attention, and with the help of some hands-on demonstrations, you just might "get it." However, to repeat myself, fulfilling that role is not my goal here ... that is not the question you initially asked, which I and others have already answered.

In regard to this thread in this forum: what is your goal? Here's one simple question with a binary answer: Are you trying to get this machine to work with an AC adapter? If that is in fact your goal, please just answer "yes." If your goal is something different or something more complex then please answer "no." A one-word answer. It's that simple.

Ryan Elder · February 10th, 2020, 11:52 PM

Oh okay thanks.

My goal is to want to fix the problem, of why it won't seem to accept power from the adapter anymore without saying low battery and turning off. So far the new adapter seems to work, and that's all I know so far. So I guess my answer is yes to the first question.

Greg Miller · February 11th, 2020, 12:34 AM

Quote:

My goal is to want to fix the problem, of why it won't seem to accept power from the adapter anymore without saying low battery

Alrighty, then ...

I have already suggested (as have others) that the first step is to try the correct AC adapter with this recorder. Do that. (Or, if it isn't worth the $20 investment, get a new recorder ... and give me the old one.) ;-)

case a: if the recorder then works correctly, you've answered the question: the original adapter is bad (and the bogus unknown adapter from a friend is not electrically correct for this recorder)

case b: if the recorder still doesn't work right with the new "correct" adapter, then either
b1: there is a problem internal to the recorder, or
b2: the new "correct" adapter isn't really correct (a possibility, since it's not coming from Fostex).

in either b1 or b2, things become more complicated ... so let's just hope the answer was (case a:)

Greg Smith · February 11th, 2020, 02:08 AM

I found some pictures of the recorder online by entering "Fostex FR2LE" in the Google search box.

In some of these photos, it is clear that the recorder itself is marked right above the power jack to indicate that it requires 12 volts DC and the center pin on the power input is positive.

Sheesh, that wasn't very hard, Ryan. All you have to do is LOOK at the thing and it will tell you much of what you need to know.

Paul R Johnson · February 11th, 2020, 02:32 AM

Ryan, sadly, doesn't;t make decisions. He has an army of friends who range from vaguely wrong to totally wrong and always give him the most ridiculous advice without ever checking he understands it. As a consequence, he pops back up here and asks us why his friends advice doesn't seem to work.

We've discovered the best advancement advice we can give is to be clear, straightforward and blunt. Suggesting, or trying to promote his learning usually fails - but we persevere.

Pete Cofrancesco · February 11th, 2020, 06:45 AM

..........

Don Palomaki · February 11th, 2020, 08:42 AM

{Quote]The problem is that as you drain the electrons out of the batteries, they will develop a vacuum inside, and eventually they might implode, [/Quote]

Common AA alkaline batteries do not implode. Some might explode when over header, such as tossed into a fire. However, when over discharged or significantly over age they may corrode through the case and leak (an all to common happening when batteries are left in unused gear). And electrons are not drained out of the battery leaving a vacuum, an equal number return to the battery through the other lead. (However, ome of the chemicals in the battery change form.)

Based on the demonstrated level of your technological expertise you should take the unit to a dealer and have them order a replacement power adapter. Or maybe spring for this:

Amazon

or this

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-Adapter-...4383.l4275.c10

Greg Miller · February 11th, 2020, 09:24 AM

Don, that was entirely a joke! Ryan has told us about so much bad advice (while ignoring our good advice) that I really wanted to see how he would respond to that. Unfortunately he apparently overlooked it altogether and didn't comment at all.

I was hoping that all the knowledgeable readers who have been following this thread would get the joke. So far, you're the only person who has responded seriously. Frankly, I thought the concept of sucking out the electrons and creating a vacuum was pretty creative. ;-)

In fact, though, I do think it's possible that the incorrect adapter he tried might at least have drained the charge in the batteries. Hopefully not with enough current to damage the batteries, although if they were lithium it might be a possibility.

Worse is the possibility that the random adaptor might have been opposite polarity to what the recorder wants (or AC output), and depending on the recorder's circuitry that might have done something bad. For Ryan's sake I certainly hope this didn't happen.

Ryan Elder · February 11th, 2020, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Smith

I found some pictures of the recorder online by entering "Fostex FR2LE" in the Google search box.

In some of these photos, it is clear that the recorder itself is marked right above the power jack to indicate that it requires 12 volts DC and the center pin on the power input is positive.

Sheesh, that wasn't very hard, Ryan. All you have to do is LOOK at the thing and it will tell you much of what you need to know.

Yes I know it says 12V on it, but here is what I don't understand. Without plugging in power, and just using batteries only, the recorder only takes four AA batteries. That's more like around 6V. So why does it say it requires 12V, when it takes only 4 batteries therefore, which is 6? This is the inconsistency I do not understand.

Pete Cofrancesco · February 11th, 2020, 11:48 AM

..........

Brian Drysdale · February 11th, 2020, 12:39 PM

It could be that 12 volt power supplies are more common in the industry than 6 volt ones. If the manufacturer uses 12 v for the DC in from the AC power supply, that all you need to know, This has probably been factored into the design.

There are film cameras which use 16 volt batteries, but only use 12 volts at normal frame rates. High end video cameras can take 14,4v batteries, but run on 12v

Ryan Elder · February 11th, 2020, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Smith

I found some pictures of the recorder online by entering "Fostex FR2LE" in the Google search box.

In some of these photos, it is clear that the recorder itself is marked right above the power jack to indicate that it requires 12 volts DC and the center pin on the power input is positive.

Sheesh, that wasn't very hard, Ryan. All you have to do is LOOK at the thing and it will tell you much of what you need to know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

This yet another example of you ignoring something because it doesn’t make sense to you. So the manufacturer clearly indicated that it required 12v from the power adapter but you ignored it.

I didn't ignore it, I new it says 12V, but since it uses only 4 AA batteries, I thought the 12V indicator was 12V max, because it only needs 6V with batteries therefore.

Don Palomaki · February 11th, 2020, 12:54 PM

Page 20 of the user manual clearly states
:
"<Notes>: Use only the supplied AC adaptor. Using another AC adaptor may damage the
FR-2LE due to the mismatch of the power voltage, polarity, etc.
When connect or disconnect the AC adaptor, make sure that the [POWER] switch is set to
"OFF"."

The manual indicates that the power supply is 12 volts.
Power consumption is "approximately" 3 watts.

That translates to about 0.25 amps. The power supply should be rated to provide not less than 0.25 amps (or 250 ma) at 12 volts DC and have the same plug polarity. A higher rating current is OK.
Lower current or voltage is NOT OK, higher voltage is NOT OK.

It is not unusual for A/C adapter voltage to not equal battery supply voltage. In fact the several battery types it allows fo not have the same voltage. (They range from 7.2 to 6 to 4.8 nominal volts.) It is not unusual for battery operated electronics to have voltage boosting circuits internally to enable operation from lower voltage batteries.

Pete Cofrancesco · February 11th, 2020, 01:00 PM

I’m sure the manufacturer have their reasons. It’s not hard to see the numerical patterns and relationships. Household voltage is 120v. Probably long time ago manufacturers fell into a standard of reducing voltage by a factor of 10 to 12v. For portable electronics such the one in question the manufacturer decided 8 AA batteries would make it too big and heavy so they half the voltage and batteries required.

February 10th, 2020, 10:01 PM	#46
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. Oh okay, but I thought the problem was the adapter since a new adapter seems to work, or at least it's working a lot better than the old one, which wasn't working at all it seemed. The batteries draining more possibly? Well I checked with the mulitmeter just now. The adapter is 10V. Since the four batteries it uses without being plugged adds up to 6V, then would a 10V adapter be enough voltage then, since it exceeds that of the battery voltage?

February 10th, 2020, 11:10 PM	#47
Greg Miller Trustee Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,791	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. That can't be determined with 100% certainty, because we don't know what power circuitry is inside the recorder. We also don't know whether the AC adapter you're using includes a voltage regulator, what the current capacity of the AC adapter is, or how much current the recorder needs. Ryan, it is not my intention to try to give you a broad education in electronic theory. That is not practical, especially with someone whose attention to detail is as poor as yours is. It seems your level of competence is roughly figuring out how to install the batteries facing in the right direction. (And that's not a personal criticism ... everybody has to start somewhere ... it's just an observation.) Based on this and previous questions of yours, I'd say you are technically at a very elementary level. If you want to understand batteries and power supplies (as a very first starting point for electrical theory) I suggest you find a local mentor (a science teacher, a licensed amateur radio operator, whatever). That mentor will not be hampered by the medium of email, and will be able to actually show you things visually. If you pay attention, and with the help of some hands-on demonstrations, you just might "get it." However, to repeat myself, fulfilling that role is not my goal here ... that is not the question you initially asked, which I and others have already answered. In regard to this thread in this forum: what is your goal? Here's one simple question with a binary answer: Are you trying to get this machine to work with an AC adapter? If that is in fact your goal, please just answer "yes." If your goal is something different or something more complex then please answer "no." A one-word answer. It's that simple.

February 10th, 2020, 11:52 PM	#48
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. Oh okay thanks. My goal is to want to fix the problem, of why it won't seem to accept power from the adapter anymore without saying low battery and turning off. So far the new adapter seems to work, and that's all I know so far. So I guess my answer is yes to the first question.

February 11th, 2020, 02:08 AM	#50
Greg Smith Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Champaign, IL Posts: 86	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. I found some pictures of the recorder online by entering "Fostex FR2LE" in the Google search box. In some of these photos, it is clear that the recorder itself is marked right above the power jack to indicate that it requires 12 volts DC and the center pin on the power input is positive. Sheesh, that wasn't very hard, Ryan. All you have to do is LOOK at the thing and it will tell you much of what you need to know. Last edited by Greg Smith; February 11th, 2020 at 04:02 AM.

February 11th, 2020, 02:32 AM	#51
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. Ryan, sadly, doesn't;t make decisions. He has an army of friends who range from vaguely wrong to totally wrong and always give him the most ridiculous advice without ever checking he understands it. As a consequence, he pops back up here and asks us why his friends advice doesn't seem to work. We've discovered the best advancement advice we can give is to be clear, straightforward and blunt. Suggesting, or trying to promote his learning usually fails - but we persevere.

February 11th, 2020, 06:45 AM	#52
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. .......... Last edited by Pete Cofrancesco; February 11th, 2020 at 07:36 PM.

February 11th, 2020, 08:42 AM	#53
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. {Quote]The problem is that as you drain the electrons out of the batteries, they will develop a vacuum inside, and eventually they might implode, [/Quote] Common AA alkaline batteries do not implode. Some might explode when over header, such as tossed into a fire. However, when over discharged or significantly over age they may corrode through the case and leak (an all to common happening when batteries are left in unused gear). And electrons are not drained out of the battery leaving a vacuum, an equal number return to the battery through the other lead. (However, ome of the chemicals in the battery change form.) Based on the demonstrated level of your technological expertise you should take the unit to a dealer and have them order a replacement power adapter. Or maybe spring for this: Amazon Amazon or this https://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-Adapter-...4383.l4275.c10 __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

February 11th, 2020, 09:24 AM	#54
Greg Miller Trustee Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,791	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. Don, that was entirely a joke! Ryan has told us about so much bad advice (while ignoring our good advice) that I really wanted to see how he would respond to that. Unfortunately he apparently overlooked it altogether and didn't comment at all. I was hoping that all the knowledgeable readers who have been following this thread would get the joke. So far, you're the only person who has responded seriously. Frankly, I thought the concept of sucking out the electrons and creating a vacuum was pretty creative. ;-) In fact, though, I do think it's possible that the incorrect adapter he tried might at least have drained the charge in the batteries. Hopefully not with enough current to damage the batteries, although if they were lithium it might be a possibility. Worse is the possibility that the random adaptor might have been opposite polarity to what the recorder wants (or AC output), and depending on the recorder's circuitry that might have done something bad. For Ryan's sake I certainly hope this didn't happen.

February 11th, 2020, 11:48 AM	#56
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. .......... Last edited by Pete Cofrancesco; February 11th, 2020 at 07:38 PM.

February 11th, 2020, 12:39 PM	#57
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. It could be that 12 volt power supplies are more common in the industry than 6 volt ones. If the manufacturer uses 12 v for the DC in from the AC power supply, that all you need to know, This has probably been factored into the design. There are film cameras which use 16 volt batteries, but only use 12 volts at normal frame rates. High end video cameras can take 14,4v batteries, but run on 12v

February 11th, 2020, 12:54 PM	#59
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. Page 20 of the user manual clearly states : "<Notes>: Use only the supplied AC adaptor. Using another AC adaptor may damage the FR-2LE due to the mismatch of the power voltage, polarity, etc. When connect or disconnect the AC adaptor, make sure that the [POWER] switch is set to "OFF"." The manual indicates that the power supply is 12 volts. Power consumption is "approximately" 3 watts. That translates to about 0.25 amps. The power supply should be rated to provide not less than 0.25 amps (or 250 ma) at 12 volts DC and have the same plug polarity. A higher rating current is OK. Lower current or voltage is NOT OK, higher voltage is NOT OK. It is not unusual for A/C adapter voltage to not equal battery supply voltage. In fact the several battery types it allows fo not have the same voltage. (They range from 7.2 to 6 to 4.8 nominal volts.) It is not unusual for battery operated electronics to have voltage boosting circuits internally to enable operation from lower voltage batteries. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

February 11th, 2020, 01:00 PM	#60
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. I’m sure the manufacturer have their reasons. It’s not hard to see the numerical patterns and relationships. Household voltage is 120v. Probably long time ago manufacturers fell into a standard of reducing voltage by a factor of 10 to 12v. For portable electronics such the one in question the manufacturer decided 8 AA batteries would make it too big and heavy so they half the voltage and batteries required.