Question about a field recorder works in this case.

Pete Cofrancesco · February 8th, 2020, 04:57 PM

The gold standard is Sound Devices. I've own and use the 302 on a daily basis for over a decade, the pre amps, the limiters, the build quality... not one problem.

I've thought of getting the MixPre which has the built in recorder. Anyways for any professional set you would need timegen. But this is the gear you get when your job depends on delivering results without fail.

Greg Smith · February 8th, 2020, 09:51 PM

I just recently gave away my old Tascam HD-P2 recorder - vintage 2007 and very similar in overall size, features and performance to your Fostex. I replaced it with a Sound Devices MixPre-6 because I wanted the mixing features, USB interface, small size, rugged construction and excellent preamps in that package. But it was NOT because of recording quality or convenience of use per se. The old Tascam sounded fine and produced recordings that well exceeded the quality demands of the environments (mainly online and in classrooms) where my videos are usually shown.

My theory for prioritizing equipment purchases is generally to identify the weakest link in my system and try to upgrade one thing at a time as money permits or the special needs of an upcoming project dictate. From what I've seen of your work, the audio recorder is NOT holding you back the most - I would address your camera, lenses, tripod, lights and field recording microphones first (or spend money on some classes to improve your skills with what you already have).

- Greg

Ryan Elder · February 9th, 2020, 01:34 AM

Oh okay, I just thought if a recorder like the F8 has a fader that has more room to be turned up higher, in comparison, perhaps it could capture more quiet noises at a higher level then, if that's true?

Paul R Johnson · February 9th, 2020, 01:40 AM

We've answered this Ryan. Noise issues are operator induced by incorrect gain staging - of course you could buy a new one with 100mm faders rather than 60mm ones, this would give you 40mm of extra gain, if it's important to you. Or you could buy the ones Spinal Tap used, with faders that go to 11?

Rick Reineke · February 9th, 2020, 10:31 AM

Some preamps inherently have more available gain than others . A devices specifications usually state this input gain factor. I've encountered preamps with a max +50dB of gain and others with close to 80dB. +50 is usually adequate for moderate SPL levels (live music and such) but more is needed for low talker dialog. .Upstream, the microphone's sensitivity is a major factor on how much gain is needed as well.
All said, anything that goes to 11 has got to be better

Greg Miller · February 9th, 2020, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

Well I tried a new adapter. Instead of the battery indicator going empty, like the old adapter, the battery indicator is now half full. But that's strange cause of the adapter is not plugged in and it's running off just the batteries, the batteries are full according to the indicator. But when I plug in the new adapter, now the power is half full. Any reason why that could be? But still half full is better than empty and therefore no power, with the adapter plugged in.

Is the "new adapter" factory original? Or did you just get some random adapter?

Don Palomaki · February 10th, 2020, 05:26 AM

What are the specification on the adapters, both the OEM and the replacement.
The specs should be on the adapter body and include:

Input Voltage
Output voltage
Output current

Ryan Elder · February 10th, 2020, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Reineke

Some preamps inherently have more available gain than others . A devices specifications usually state this input gain factor. I've encountered preamps with a max +50dB of gain and others with close to 80dB. +50 is usually adequate for moderate SPL levels (live music and such) but more is needed for low talker dialog. .Upstream, the microphone's sensitivity is a major factor on how much gain is needed as well.
All said, anything that goes to 11 has got to be better

Yes, there are times if dialogue is low that I feel mine could be turned up higher sometimes. Some people just have low voices it seems during certain moments. But also if I want to record quiet sounds. For example there is a scene in a project I did where an actor breaks into a character's house and has to be really quiet, so the owner character cannot hear him, and it took place in a house with mostly carpet. I recorded the footsteps myself later, and then put them in, but people said they couldn't even hear the actor walk sneakily around. So either I am really quiet in my footsteps when trying to mimic the actor's movements, or their is not enough gain on the FR2-LE to record footsteps that are trying to be quiet on carpet while walking sneakily maybe?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

We've answered this Ryan. Noise issues are operator induced by incorrect gain staging - of course you could buy a new one with 100mm faders rather than 60mm ones, this would give you 40mm of extra gain, if it's important to you. Or you could buy the ones Spinal Tap used, with faders that go to 11?

Oh okay, but I don't think the gain staging is incorrect when trying to record quiet footsteps on carpet is it, since in order to pick those up, I have to go really high, at least on the FR2-LE, where as I noticed on the Zoom F8, the dials seem to have more gain in comparison it seemed. However, on the F8, it seems that that there is only one gain knob her channel, and on fader. Is this why they are higher, cause the gain and fader seem to be in the same knob?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Miller

Is the "new adapter" factory original? Or did you just get some random adapter?

It's a random adapter that was used for something else entirely, that a friend didn't need anymore, that happened to be able to have the same plug in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Palomaki

What are the specification on the adapters, both the OEM and the replacement.
The specs should be on the adapter body and include:

Input Voltage
Output voltage
Output current

Since I got it from a friend, I am not sure what the specs are on the new one. I cannot find the specs on the original so far, it just says it's an AC adapter so far.

Paul R Johnson · February 10th, 2020, 12:32 PM

How loud are your footsteps on carpet? Mine are silent?

Greg Miller · February 10th, 2020, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Elder

It's a random adapter that was used for something else entirely, that a friend didn't need anymore, that happened to be able to have the same plug in.

Oh, OK. What's happening is that the adapter is wrong for that recorder. It is actually draining the charge out of the batteries, and if you leave it connected they will become lower and lower. The problem is that as you drain the electrons out of the batteries, they will develop a vacuum inside, and eventually they might implode, which could be messy to say the least.

Pete Cofrancesco · February 10th, 2020, 01:40 PM

I love how he doesn't listen to us and plugs in some random adapter and then complains it's not running right.

Ryan Elder · February 10th, 2020, 08:44 PM

Oh did I not listen to you? It was said on here that I should try using a different adapter to see if the problem is still there, so isn't that what I did?

Greg Miller · February 10th, 2020, 09:40 PM

No, you did not listen to us. More than one person told you either to get the OEM adapter, or else to be sure you got an adapter with the same voltage and current rating as the original. And in fact you said you had a friend who owned a multimeter to help you confirm that.

Now you tell us that you simply got a random adapter ... which is likely the wrong voltage, likely the wrong current, possibly the wrong polarity. It's as if several people told you your car needs high octane gas, but you put paint thinner in the tank and wondered why the car doesn't run right. Or someone told you "drink milk three times a day" and instead you drank latex paint and wondered why you felt sick ... after all, milk and latex paint are both liquid and both white ... isn't that the same thing?

You don't need to get a new power adapter. You need to get a clue.

Ryan Elder · February 10th, 2020, 09:48 PM

Oh okay, but I thought that I would just try another adapter to see if it works at all. I wasn't going to make this my permanent adapter to use, I just did it as a test to see if if it would work.

Sorry about that. I can get a permanent one now, now that we see that the problem is likely the adapter. However, Fostex does not make this product anymore though. So would I have to buy a used adapter from someone who is selling there's then?

About the multi-meter... how do I know much voltage is suppose to be going through the original, since all I find on it, online is that the FR2-LE takes an AC adapter but I couldn't find any other information on the adapter.

I could buy this one:

https://www.ebay.ca/i/262674050331?c...4aAnD8EALw_wcB

Greg Miller · February 10th, 2020, 09:54 PM

We do NOT know for certain that the adapter is that problem. That's because you have NOT checked the recorder with the *correct* adapter. At best you have proved nothing. At worst, using the wrong adapter may have damaged something. You were warned about this previously.

CAREFULLY re-read what we've already told you in detail. CAREFULLY read my posts of Jan.18 and Jan.30. CAREFULLY read other posts from other people before and after my replies. Then CAREFULLY follow our suggestions.

Using the wrong adapter may well damage your recorder. If you really don't want to continue using that recorder (or are too lazy or too obtuse to do what we've suggested) and are ready to get a new one, then say so and quit wasting time playing with this one.

February 8th, 2020, 04:57 PM	#31
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. The gold standard is Sound Devices. I've own and use the 302 on a daily basis for over a decade, the pre amps, the limiters, the build quality... not one problem. I've thought of getting the MixPre which has the built in recorder. Anyways for any professional set you would need timegen. But this is the gear you get when your job depends on delivering results without fail.

February 8th, 2020, 09:51 PM	#32
Greg Smith Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Champaign, IL Posts: 86	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. I just recently gave away my old Tascam HD-P2 recorder - vintage 2007 and very similar in overall size, features and performance to your Fostex. I replaced it with a Sound Devices MixPre-6 because I wanted the mixing features, USB interface, small size, rugged construction and excellent preamps in that package. But it was NOT because of recording quality or convenience of use per se. The old Tascam sounded fine and produced recordings that well exceeded the quality demands of the environments (mainly online and in classrooms) where my videos are usually shown. My theory for prioritizing equipment purchases is generally to identify the weakest link in my system and try to upgrade one thing at a time as money permits or the special needs of an upcoming project dictate. From what I've seen of your work, the audio recorder is NOT holding you back the most - I would address your camera, lenses, tripod, lights and field recording microphones first (or spend money on some classes to improve your skills with what you already have). - Greg

February 9th, 2020, 01:34 AM	#33
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. Oh okay, I just thought if a recorder like the F8 has a fader that has more room to be turned up higher, in comparison, perhaps it could capture more quiet noises at a higher level then, if that's true?

February 9th, 2020, 01:40 AM	#34
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,049	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. We've answered this Ryan. Noise issues are operator induced by incorrect gain staging - of course you could buy a new one with 100mm faders rather than 60mm ones, this would give you 40mm of extra gain, if it's important to you. Or you could buy the ones Spinal Tap used, with faders that go to 11?

February 9th, 2020, 10:31 AM	#35
Rick Reineke Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New York Posts: 2,039	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. Some preamps inherently have more available gain than others . A devices specifications usually state this input gain factor. I've encountered preamps with a max +50dB of gain and others with close to 80dB. +50 is usually adequate for moderate SPL levels (live music and such) but more is needed for low talker dialog. .Upstream, the microphone's sensitivity is a major factor on how much gain is needed as well. All said, anything that goes to 11 has got to be better

February 10th, 2020, 05:26 AM	#37
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. What are the specification on the adapters, both the OEM and the replacement. The specs should be on the adapter body and include: Input Voltage Output voltage Output current __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

February 10th, 2020, 12:32 PM	#39
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,049	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. How loud are your footsteps on carpet? Mine are silent?

February 10th, 2020, 01:40 PM	#41
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. I love how he doesn't listen to us and plugs in some random adapter and then complains it's not running right.

February 10th, 2020, 08:44 PM	#42
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. Oh did I not listen to you? It was said on here that I should try using a different adapter to see if the problem is still there, so isn't that what I did?

February 10th, 2020, 09:40 PM	#43
Greg Miller Trustee Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,793	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. No, you did not listen to us. More than one person told you either to get the OEM adapter, or else to be sure you got an adapter with the same voltage and current rating as the original. And in fact you said you had a friend who owned a multimeter to help you confirm that. Now you tell us that you simply got a random adapter ... which is likely the wrong voltage, likely the wrong current, possibly the wrong polarity. It's as if several people told you your car needs high octane gas, but you put paint thinner in the tank and wondered why the car doesn't run right. Or someone told you "drink milk three times a day" and instead you drank latex paint and wondered why you felt sick ... after all, milk and latex paint are both liquid and both white ... isn't that the same thing? You don't need to get a new power adapter. You need to get a clue.

February 10th, 2020, 09:48 PM	#44
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,888	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. Oh okay, but I thought that I would just try another adapter to see if it works at all. I wasn't going to make this my permanent adapter to use, I just did it as a test to see if if it would work. Sorry about that. I can get a permanent one now, now that we see that the problem is likely the adapter. However, Fostex does not make this product anymore though. So would I have to buy a used adapter from someone who is selling there's then? About the multi-meter... how do I know much voltage is suppose to be going through the original, since all I find on it, online is that the FR2-LE takes an AC adapter but I couldn't find any other information on the adapter. I could buy this one: https://www.ebay.ca/i/262674050331?c...4aAnD8EALw_wcB

February 10th, 2020, 09:54 PM	#45
Greg Miller Trustee Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,793	Re: Question about a field recorder works in this case. We do NOT know for certain that the adapter is that problem. That's because you have NOT checked the recorder with the correct adapter. At best you have proved nothing. At worst, using the wrong adapter may have damaged something. You were warned about this previously. CAREFULLY re-read what we've already told you in detail. CAREFULLY read my posts of Jan.18 and Jan.30. CAREFULLY read other posts from other people before and after my replies. Then CAREFULLY follow our suggestions. Using the wrong adapter may well damage your recorder. If you really don't want to continue using that recorder (or are too lazy or too obtuse to do what we've suggested) and are ready to get a new one, then say so and quit wasting time playing with this one.