Recommendations: Best Value Shotgun Mic for Indie Film

[Steven Schuldt]

Would be great to hear suggestions for getting most bang-for-buck in a shotgun mic for use in independent filmmaking. In past I've had access to mics that I can't afford to own like the Schoeps CMC 6 U/MK 21, but am looking to add something to the kit bag that can give me pro quality without having to deal with the hassle of borrowing/renting.

Thanks in advance!

[Guy Cochran]

I'd be looking at the whole chain from mic to recording. A less expensive mic and a better recorder might make all the difference. And asking if you need things like Timecode. Some of the cameras have a high noise floor and may even make a "High-end" mic sound bad. Also things like limiters and low end cut can save takes. An example might be "I have $1000", what's best mic I can get for my DSLR? Some would say get a Sennheiser MKH-416 for $999. I would say, you would be better off with a Zoom F4 or Sound Device Mix-Pre 3 and a RODE NTG-4. It all boils down to the end deliverable. Here are some suggestions that might help, maybe others can chime in with more options:

Beginner:
Azden SGM250
Marantz Pro has a new line worth looking at Marantz Professional - Professional Playback & Recording
RODE Videomic / Videomic Pro (Can use with XLR via VXLR product)
Shure VP83 Lenshopper

Medium:
RODE NTG-1,2 or NTG-4+
Sennheiser MKE600
Audio Technica AT875R

Medium - High:
Aputure Deity
RODE NTG-3
Sennheiser MKH-416
Audio Technica 4073

High:

Sanken CS-3e
Sennheiser 8060
DPA 4017c
Schoeps miniCMIT
Schoeps CMIT 5U

There are ton of good videos on YouTube to hear the samples. Curtis Judd does a pretty good job https://www.youtube.com/user/curtisjudd

[Steven Schuldt]

Thanks for these, much appreciated. Yeah, I'm recording into a Tascam DR-40 for now. Already have a RODE VideoMic Pro but consider it a toy, merely useful for syncing on-camera audio with the field recorder. After doing some looking around and watching/listening to some YouTube comparison tests of the RODEs and Sennheisers I'm thinking I may be have to bite the bullet and drop the $2K+ on a Schoeps CMC641 and a Rycote blimp.

Will be a stretch, but I think maybe I've gotten too spoiled to deal with the compromises involved in using lesser mics. We all obsess about video quality here, but if the audio is lacking you may as well call in the dogs and piss on the fire, as they say.

Thanks again!

[Don Palomaki]

$1600 mic to feed a $150 recorder?!

What is being used to capture the video?
What is the recording environment? Studio or field?
What is the ultimate end product and how will it be viewed and heard?
How good does the audio have to be? The expectation for the 6 o-clock news is not the same as for an opera aria.

If you bought a decent $200 mic, what benefit could you get out of the remaining $1400.
Your money, your budget, your product

[Gary Nattrass]

My go to budget mic is the AT875r with a rode PG2 grip and WS6 softie.

I have done full drama shoots on that one mic and have five of them.

[Graham Bernard]

Originally Posted by Steven Schuldt

Already have a RODE VideoMic Pro but consider it a toy, merely useful for syncing on-camera audio with the field recorder.

We’ve all been here. Welcome to the World of Micing-up, where, if you look closely behind each and every new arrival through the Gates of Audio Nirvana you can just make Out discarded ditched kit, lining the route to “Better”.

Originally Posted by Steven Schuldt

Will be a stretch, but I think maybe I've gotten too spoiled to deal with the compromises involved in using lesser mics.

Damn straight!

Originally Posted by Steven Schuldt

We all obsess about video quality here, but if the audio is lacking you may as well call in the dogs and piss on the fire, as they say

Oh yes..... A great looking video can be all but sheeeet, if the Audio is compromised. However, a dodgy looking piece of Video LOOKS unbeatable with clear and authentic AUDIO. Am I right or am I right???

Methinks you’re needing permissions to trade up? Don’t think twice, just do it. My first pro mic was a Senni 66 with the K9. I needed it to fall in with my first Boss. It felt like an unnecessary and overly ridiculous, obscene amount of money. Still got and use it. I’ve added more 66s and a loooong tube for some natural sounds. They’ve always been “hotish” but this type of clarity in post can be an advantage.

Spend the money on what you want to get. Does that SOUND good?

[Bernie Beaudry]

I love my Schoepes and wouldn't be without it. I bought a very reasonable priced ($700) one in the T power variety and then had it modded to 48 volt phantom power. The mic is over twenty years old and sounds great. Total cost was under $900. Pete Verrando does the mod. He can also do Sennheiser 416s and 816s.
Bernie

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Originally Posted by Don Palomaki

$1600 mic to feed a $150 recorder?!

What is being used to capture the video?
What is the recording environment? Studio or field?
What is the ultimate end product and how will it be viewed and heard?
How good does the audio have to be? The expectation for the 6 o-clock news is not the same as for an opera aria.

If you bought a decent $200 mic, what benefit could you get out of the remaining $1400.
Your money, your budget, your product

I’m with you. I try not to judge but I’m frequently baffled by the posts I read here.

[John Nantz]

What Steven is looking for is a good “shotgun” mic to add to his mic quiver. Initially I had the same questions Don had but after reading post #3 where Steven plans to add a Rycote blimp (Zeppelin) that kinda indicates outdoor work. Zeppelins aren’t a cheap addition because of unit, special conbox cable, the Windjammer, and lets not forget the K-Tek carbon fiber boom pole, stand, sandbags, boompole holder adapter, Pearstone neoprene boompole case, Zeppelin gear case (I repurposed my old carry-on bag), ….. It all adds up. Whew!

Sending the signal to a Tascam DR-40 almost guaranteed beat whatever the cam has for audio capture (since they don’t even publish their data) so that’s a plus. Building a kit from scratch isn’t easy and for someone without deep pockets it’s definitely a piecemeal situation and, consequently, at least speaking for myself, every purchase is a compromise. Got a lot more tied up in audio than cameras. PZM mic anyone? It never ends.

[Steven Schuldt]

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

I’m with you. I try not to judge but I’m frequently baffled by the posts I read here.

Lol. Oh brother. Come on now, let's not get too pretentious about this. No one likes a snob. The DR-40 captures 96kHz/24-bit and is damned good. The reason it only costs $150 is because sound is a TRIVIAL data-type to store and push around in 2018, totally lightweight with modern computer technology.

Now before you hop on your pre-amp soapbox, yes, I've used SoundDevices units (the 422) in the past and something like that would definitely be better paired with a CMC641, but the DR-40 will not much diminish the great sound I'm getting off the Schoeps until such time as I have $4K lying around for a SoundDevices unit.

Really funny how some criticized me here for spending too much, others for spending too little. Make up your f*cking mind!

As far as my intended uses, mix of indoor and outdoor, and I figure I can get away with a boom mic outdoors for now if I don't try to capture any usable dialog too far from my subjects. I'll eventually add a proper shotgun, and found some of the suggestions above very helpful.

Please, never assume people are ignorant about this sort of stuff based on a few lines written in haste on a chat board.

For anyone tempted to believe horseshit from snobs about the DR-40 being somehow this massive compromise:

http://www.studiodaily.com/2013/11/r...io-recorder-2/

[Bernie Beaudry]

Originally Posted by Steven Schuldt

Lol. Oh brother. Come on now, let's not get too pretentious about this. No one likes a snob. The DR-40 captures 96kHz/24-bit and is damned good. The reason it only costs $150 is because sound is a TRIVIAL data-type to store and push around in 2018, totally lightweight with modern computer technology.

Now before you hop on your pre-amp soapbox, yes, I've used SoundDevices units (the 422) in the past and it would definitely be better paired with something like a CMC641, but the DR-40 will not much diminish the great sound I'm getting off the Schoeps until such time as I have $4K lying around for a SoundDevices unit.

Really funny how some criticized me here for spending too much, others for spending too little. Make up your f*cking mind!

As far as my intended uses, mix of indoor and outdoor, and I figure I can get away with a boom mic outdoors for now if I don't try to capture any usable dialog too far from my subjects. I'll eventually get a proper shotgun, and found some of the suggestions above very helpful.

Please, never assume people are ignorant about this sort of stuff based on a few lines written in haste on a chat board.

I think you're taking the right approach. A great mic is a great mic and as you say won't be diminished much by the DR-40s preamps. And I have to say I recorded some concerts with a DR-40 with its internal mics and was blown away by how good it sounded. I was at the mix position and got the recorder up on a stand and it was amazing how well it did. Granted its much different than plugging a mic into it and recording dialogue but it does speak to the quality of the design. There's a plug on mic booster by Triton Audio that can boost the output of the mic if the gain staging becomes a problem.
I've used the CMC641 many times out doors and with proper wind protection it does really well. With the lack of reflections and other acoustic factors you can still get good sound at a reasonable distance. Look at the Cinela products for wind protection for the CMC641. They just came out with a new version of their ball gag called Leo. You can add fur to it for the outdoors. Bumblebee also has a nice slip on windscreen with two levels of fur. I'm using it with my CMC641 and the Rycote Lyra suspension. I have the Cinela Piano for my CMIT5u.

[Bernie Beaudry]

Originally Posted by Steven Schuldt

Thanks for these, much appreciated. Yeah, I'm recording into a Tascam DR-40 for now. Already have a RODE VideoMic Pro but consider it a toy, merely useful for syncing on-camera audio with the field recorder. After doing some looking around and watching/listening to some YouTube comparison tests of the RODEs and Sennheisers I'm thinking I may be have to bite the bullet and drop the $2K+ on a Schoeps CMC641 and a Rycote blimp.

Will be a stretch, but I think maybe I've gotten too spoiled to deal with the compromises involved in using lesser mics. We all obsess about video quality here, but if the audio is lacking you may as well call in the dogs and piss on the fire, as they say.

Thanks again!

If you're willing to go used and T power you can get in for well under 2 grand. Check my other post about getting a T power CMC641 modded.
BB

[Steven Schuldt]

Originally Posted by Bernie Beaudry

I think you're taking the right approach. A great mic is a great mic and as you say won't be diminished much by the DR-40s preamps. And I have to say I recorded some concerts with a DR-40 with its internal mics and was blown away by how good it sounded. I was at the mix position and got the recorder up on a stand and it was amazing how well it did. Granted its much different than plugging a mic into it and recording dialogue but it does speak to the quality of the design. There's a plug on mic booster by Triton Audio that can boost the output of the mic if the gain staging becomes a problem.
I've used the CMC641 many times out doors and with proper wind protection it does really well. With the lack of reflections and other acoustic factors you can still get good sound at a reasonable distance. Look at the Cinela products for wind protection for the CMC641. They just came out with a new version of their ball gag called Leo. You can add fur to it for the outdoors. Bumblebee also has a nice slip on windscreen with two levels of fur. I'm using it with my CMC641 and the Rycote Lyra suspension. I have the Cinela Piano for my CMIT5u.

Encouraging to hear about your success with the CMC641 out of doors! Will definitely test pushing it and see what I can get away with. Had already ordered the Rycote Windshield Kit 2 before these Cinela suggestions came in, will look at maybe returning the Rycote. Thanks for the suggestions!

[Bernie Beaudry]

Originally Posted by Steven Schuldt

Encouraging to hear about your success with the CMC641 out of doors! Will definitely test pushing it and see what I can get away with. Had already ordered the Rycote Windshield Kit 2 before these Cinela suggestions came in, will look at maybe returning the Rycote. Thanks for the suggestions!

Glad to help. Let us know what your findings are.

[Don Palomaki]

The operative phrase in the original post is "best value" and that means different things to different people6

Near perfect is the enemy of good enough and accounts for maybe 90% of the ultimate cost of things. The audio chain is only as good as the weakest link. And infrequent use may be best served by rental, especially if operating as a business. Thoughts to bear in mind if on a limited budget.

One can drive to work in an '95 Ford, a SmartCar, a BMW or ride in a limo. All four can get one there. The question is how one wants to go, cost, requirement to arrive safely at the end of the trip, and is one trying to send a message to others or reaffirm something to one's self.