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#1 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 3,004
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wireless audio
For a theatrical job I have a client giving me line via RCA that I will plug into my (correction) Sony UWP-D11 bodypack with rca Y to mini cable which the will be sent into my camera's left channel.
How does stereo get handled with this setup? I noticed the bodypack lav mic has a stereo jack even I'm sure it's a mono mic and these type of transmitters send a mono signal. Can someone educate me on how stereo is handled by these devices. Last edited by Pete Cofrancesco; March 21st, 2017 at 07:51 AM. |
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#2 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 2,038
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Re: wireless audio
An RCA output is fo'sure unbalanced and line level.. however, some mixers just route the signal from the main balanced +4 outputs, so it could be higher than -10dB, so make sure the transmitter can handle it or some attenuation will be needed. l also don't know the Sony's input plug wiring, it could just short out everything out if the wiring is not 'right' I would test the set up before hand.
What input connection does the camera have? If if's an XLR input , it would probably be better to use a DI and feed the cam and transmitter mic level. |
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#3 |
Trustee
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Burlington
Posts: 1,976
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Re: wireless audio
Did you mean the UWP-D11 system with the UTX beltpack transmitter? I have the UWP-D16 with the beltpack and plug-on transmitters.
I don't know the exact connections in the beltpack transmitter jack, but one of the conductors is for power required by the lav element when the input is set to MIC Level. You can set the input level in the menu to Line, but I haven't seen the exact connections listed anywhere to use, or if Sony has a ready-made line input cable for the beltpack transmitter. I've only done this with the plug-on transmitter because it just uses a standard cable after setting Phantom Power to OFF and the Input Level to LINE. These systems can't transmit stereo with a single set of 1 transmitter and 1 receiver that I know of. For transmitting stereo line-level, I would use one of my Wi digital stereo transmitters as long as both the range and other 2.4gHz traffic was sufficiently low to be 100% reliable. Unless it's just for guide audio that is used for sync and will be replaced later. In that case, some dropouts are ok. |
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#4 | |||||
Trustee
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,238
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Re: wireless audio
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Making many assumptions in the absense of clarifying detail, it sounds like you are combining a stereo source into monaural using a "Y" adapter (or cable?) Quote:
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If you only want to record monaural, you are already creating monaural (presumably) by taking stereo line-level signals and combining them together in a "Y"-something. Note that is generaly NOT an acceptable way of combining signals together. But it often works good enough for casual requirements. If by "handle" you mean that you want to record stereo to your camera, then you must use some method that allows transmission of BOTH Left and Right signals. A monaural wireless system will handle ONE channel. So if you need wireless, then you must use TWO wireless systems. Or, of course, hard-wire the connection with two cables (or a stereo cable). |
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#5 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
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Re: wireless audio
Common practice for dance recitals is instead of playing the music from the sound booth it's done off stage with consumer cd/stereo thus the rca.
In this particular case I'm covering the job for another videographer who told me wants the stereo feed that will be coming from two rca outputs. So the goal is to combine the stereo using a y cable to mono mini to plug into a wireless bodypack that will send the music to one of the channels of my camera. A shotgun mic will got to the other channel. I was curious why the cables adapters that come with wireless transmitter/receiver have mini jacks that have the same rings as stereo jacks ie they look exactly like stereo head phone jacks not mono. I use the number of rings on a jack to identify if it is stereo. |
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#6 |
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Re: wireless audio
The two cables that come with the set are for the receiver output.
One cable is mini to XLR male and the other cable is mini to right-angle mini. The right-angle mini is specified in the manual to connect to the recorder input and the straight mini connects to the receiver output. What camera will you be using? How far away will the camera be from the stage? Is it intended that the combined stereo signal that's recorded to one channel of the camera will be guide audio to be replaced later with the actual playback audio files or will it be used as the "actual" music in the edit with the shotgun mic as the ambient? |
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#7 | |||
Trustee
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
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Re: wireless audio
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I didn't find similar pinout information for Sony with a brief search. There is apparently a line-in cable for the Sony transmitters. EC-1.5BX although there appears to be no details about it online. So it is not even clear whether it is wired for mic-level or line level. It is also confusing that the model number you cited ("UWX-D11") does not appear to be a valid Sony product number. The closest Google and Sony would admit to is: "UWP-D11" |
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#8 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
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Re: wireless audio
Richard my mistake it's UWP-D11. It can be set to mic or line input.
I see what you're saying the segments of a TRS can be used for different purposes. For headphones the Tip and Ring is for stereo where as in my application its for balanced mono. I figured things out. I ran a test and discovered when a stereo signal is plugged into the transmitter, it discards the right channel and sends only the left. Last edited by Pete Cofrancesco; March 21st, 2017 at 08:05 AM. |
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#9 | |
Wrangler
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,487
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Re: wireless audio
Using simple "Y" adapter to mix stereo channels to mono is a kludge at best that relies on the output impedance of the source being sufficient to prevent overloading by the left-right cross connection. Not a good idea for low impedance sources.
Read the manuals for cautions, especially relative to the head phone output of the receiver. It appears to use a 3-contuctor (TRS) mini-phone for use with stereo headphones, but is mono output, and use of a 2-conductor plug will short the output. Quote:
Is there an announcer or MC involved that needs to be recorded as well? For information, the following link claims to show the mic connector interface equivalent: https://www.google.com/search?q=BMP+...Gk27-ZsvIlZYM: The transmitter bodypack appears to use the tip for audio, ring for DC power, and sleeve for ground return. Not a balanced input, but for short runs that is usually OK. While it might not exactly match what is in the UTX, it can be used as a guide to help avoid problems. It clearly indicates that there would be risks involved in connecting some other non-BMP MIC source to the bodypack input with simple adapters not configured for the bodyback's design.
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#10 |
Trustee
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Burlington
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Re: wireless audio
A better way to mix a stereo signal to mono is to use a mixer, either panning the two inputs together or sending both of them equally to a post-fader Aux Send or a Group Output.
In any case, if some or all of the music is not mono compatible (due to oddity in the original mix or error in editing the music for the specific dance number), then there will be problems with the signal if mixed to mono through any method. If it's just for guide audio to the camera and you don't have a mixer to place at the RCA outputs, I would only use one of the RCA outputs and send that to the camera. It's sufficient for sync purposes if you replace that "music" with the actual playback files later. Replacing later is more work but sounds much better. When it wasn't critical but was still going to be used as is, just one channel of the music is sometimes sufficient. It depends on the specific songs used. Hopefully all sources, such as the MC mic, will appear equally at these RCA outputs that you have access to. It needs to be tested with a multimeter if the Mic Power on the Sony beltpack transmitter input is automatically switched off when the input level is changed to Line. Otherwise that could also cause significant noise problems with the input signal or damage the transmitter input itself being shorted with the wrong cable. You could use a wide-ranging-attenuation passive direct box like the Rolls DB25b, RCA to TS 1/4-inch male adapter cable and the Sony EC-1.5BX input cable to connect to the beltpack transmitter. That would be the most simple, safe and easily adjusted way to do it. Last edited by Jay Massengill; March 21st, 2017 at 09:38 AM. |
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#11 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 3,004
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Re: wireless audio
Thx Jay getting the Rolls DB24 seem like the safest and most appropriate solution.
Don getting the original audio that doesn't work for a number of reasons. The most important is the music isn't played continuously, it's started and stopped for each dance. So you would be spending hours in post syncing 40+ songs. |
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#12 |
Trustee
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Burlington
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Re: wireless audio
I hadn't seen the relatively new DB24. Let us know if you have any oddities with the music signal when summing to mono, and how it goes with interfacing to the beltpack transmitter input.
I replace and sync about 45 songs for our dance recital. It does take a lot of time, but only because it's a lot of material. If you have a good guide track all you have to do is match the waveform start for each, it's easy depending on which software you use. And I'm going for maximum quality since I'm personally invested in the outcome. |
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#13 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2002
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Re: wireless audio
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This is nothing new, a good example of this mixing is the old classic I Feel Good by James Brown. The trademark opening line of the tune when he screams I feel good is only on one channel (right, if I remember correctly). If only the left channel is played you will barely hear the words at all. How do I know that? Those three words were a critical Que as part of a client show. I got burned when it turned out the FOH mixer sent only the right side out of the mixer and daisy chained all PA speakers. My bad, I was the TD and I know AV guys love shortcuts like that. I should have checked it. So the Y is a bad idea. Why don't you just mic the speakers coming out of the box? I have never made a recording that way but the wedding guys do it all the time. Or put a recorder there, even if as a back up. Kind Regards, Steve
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#14 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 3,004
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Re: wireless audio
Good points. One caveat I'm filming this for another videographer who's double booked and is very particular on how he wants it done. It's not my place to disregard his instructions it's his client and he will be editing it.
I'm mainly asking these questions to better educate myself. |
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#15 | |
Trustee
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 1,546
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Re: wireless audio
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I've managed to persuade bands to part with copies of unreleased singles in the interest of getting decent audio on videos from a promo tours. Where commercial CDs have been used I just got a copy (and made sure someone else dealt with the copyright :-) |
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