Wireless units recommendation

Richard Crowley · February 18th, 2016, 11:09 AM

I have two Sennheiser G3 systems, two AudioTechnica System-10 kits, and two Azden kits.
If anything, the AT System-10s are cleaner than the G3s, But I have not tested them in a heavy 2.4 GHz environment to see how well they play with others. That is my biggest concern with the 2.4GHz technology.

I have not tried the Azdens yet, but my expectation is that the performance will be similar to all the other 2.4GHz systems, while physically, they may not have the same stamina and build-quality.

Of course it is a big MISTAKE to attempt to judge the quality of ANY wireless kit (at ANY price-level) by the quality of the default supplied microphone. That is an independent issue that has NOTHING to do with the quality of the transmitter, receiver, or the protocol design.

Paul R Johnson · February 18th, 2016, 12:31 PM

Sennheiser perform well enough for me (I have multiple systems) that I don't worry. I've also got some mains powered receiver version of 2.4GHz kit and that too is pretty good sounding but the amount of 2.4GHz kit now being used - video from GoPros, remotes for audio and lighting devices and of course everyone's phones means the band is busy - my radio systems are not friendly TO the other kit, often letting me hear the lighting people moaning because they lost their link, or the sound designer complaining the link to his pad is up and down.

If I needed a new system tomorrow - I'd buy another Sennheiser.

Darren Levine · February 18th, 2016, 01:07 PM

i have used the G2's for years, and while they have held up, the bands are getting crowded here in NYC. I do a wide range of video, including client and personal blog/reviews. for the latter, i discovered the sony aw4, a wonderfully simple, small, cheap system based on bluetooth. I also grabbed an at system 10 at that steal of a deal in adorama a bit back ($240!) and that has become my go to for client use and i'm looking to sell my G2 sets

For all blogging/review videos, i'm using the sony aw4, and i even toss it into my gig bag as a backup.

I have a friend who uses the rodelinks, and he has also used the system 10, he prefers the system 10. When i saw the size of the rodelink transmitters, i was turned off to them. The system 10 pack is also somewhat large, but it's decently flat, which is much preferred to the fatter rodelink.

Link reliability i would side with the system 10, 2.4ghz may be a busy spectrum but it can be diced up a bagillion ways, and with these new digital systems they are always scanning for clean pipelines and auto switch for the best signal. That along with auto/simple pairing make them really quite attractive to single shooters.

Sound quality i will relate to video cameras: you can pixel peep and side-by-side all you like, but they all can produce 'good' quality if used properly. and of course it all depends on budget and use. One may be better than another, but just because one sounds 'worse' doesn't necessarily mean it sounds 'bad'

Mic capsules is another consideration, as universal as the 3.5mm jacks on the G2 are, i prefer the 4 pin locking on the system 10, it's more robust (i've had more than 1 of those screwlock G2 connections deteriorate)

Just as important as buying the 'right' audio system is learning how to use it properly. there's some great tutorials out there on how to lav-up a subject. this one in particular is quite nice 7 Ways to Hide a Lavalier Microphone, by Izzy Hyman

Chris Harding · February 19th, 2016, 09:46 PM

I do like Audio Technica's System 10 as the rode is a little bulky so 2.4GHz is a good way to go. If you are on a tight budget my mate Roger in the UK has a pair of Boya 2.4GB units and he swears by them and has never had an issue despite the fact they are a quarter of the price of the AT or Rode ... For $100 they are definitely worth a try if you are dubious about using the 2.4Ghz system. They also have a talk back facility so it's a cheap 2nd shooter comms system if you don't like it for your main audio.

BY-WM5 - BOYA AUDIO EQUIPMENT CO.,LTD

Aindreas Lynch · February 20th, 2016, 02:13 AM

What kind of audio quality are you after? If good rather than excellent is what you need then have a look at the Sony ECM-AW4 which is a Bluetooth wireless mic setup. Canon and Nikon also have their own versions of it and are more expensive but the Sony works great.

I did a small review of it just to test it - Sony ECM-AW4 Bluetooth Wireless Mic Review | ATL Photography ? Wedding Photographer Clane Dublin Kildare Ireland Wedding -

The sound is raw and as recorded into the camera without any processing. I was using cheap lavs and mic's but if you use good quality mic's the sound is very impressive for the price. I'm not an audio engineer so the sound is good enough for me.

They have a range of 50m and last about 3 hours on one battery.

Donald McPherson · February 20th, 2016, 04:28 AM

Speaking of cheap Boya. I have these without the display a individual volume control. Whish I had seen them first.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...807796&alt=web

Chris Harding · February 20th, 2016, 08:27 AM

Hi Donald

Those look a lot better made than the Boya and you get two transmitters and a dual receiver which is good ..I wonder how long the Li-Ion batteries will last?? I would prefer those to standard cells but it would be a bummer if they died half way thru a shoot. So do you have the same Rowa ones but without a display? It would be nice to get some feedback on these units ... I had an Azden dual system but it was pathetic but my single Azdens still work well!!!

Donald McPherson · February 20th, 2016, 11:00 AM

I'm far from an expert. But the first few minutes are using the Rowa's

Chris Harding · February 20th, 2016, 07:14 PM

That sounds pretty good and thanks for the upload! I wonder if they also make single units too?? I use an XLR adapter on my camera for audio so it has 2 independent channels with all the necessary controls so for me two wireless sets are a better solution. So your Rowa has one output where the left and right channels are combined into a "stereo" output?? Can you control your output levels coming from each transmitter or is the signal coming out the dual receiver a mix ??

Donald McPherson · February 21st, 2016, 01:46 AM

The reason I posted the ebay one above. Looks like it has control on the input of the tranciever. The one I have only has one control in the receiver non on the tranciever.

Jurgen Bauwens · February 21st, 2016, 03:58 AM

I have some G2 sets and some EK3041's with sk transmitters, all with tram TR50 lavaliers. The EK series are getting old but still have a beautifull sound and are very low noise. I recently bought the sennheiser AVX wireless system and I'm very impressed by it. Now looking to replace all for avx. It's a very compact, good sounding system at 1.9Ghz so not in the consumer 2.4ghz band. You don't even have to put the system off as it turns itself off and on with the phantom power of the camera. The receiver's battery lasts about 3hours while the transmitter lasts about 8 hours on one battery. One spare battery for the receiver would help you though a long shooting day.

Chris Harding · February 22nd, 2016, 05:38 PM

Hi Donald

The transmitter sections may have preset controls inside the battery compartment..have you looked in there? I have two Azden transmitters that have no external level controls but they do give you a mini screwdriver which allows you to adjust the output levels inside the cover.

Don Palomaki · February 24th, 2016, 06:43 AM

I would like to see the System 10 and similar models provide a plug-on transmitted with phantom power to allow use of other mics and take advantage of the improved S/N and frequency response compared to compander-based analog systems.

Chris Harding · February 24th, 2016, 06:57 AM

The System 10 transmitters are powered so surely they will support a condenser mic .. the mic that comes with the unit from Audio Technica is not a powered mic so surely any other mic will also work?? My old Azden transmitters are similar and when I do weddings I use a desk mic on the lectern (which requires phantom power) and just plug straight into the transmitter ..it gets it's power from there.

Can anyone confirm that the System 10 will support non-powered mics?? I would certainly think it would!

Admittedly a plugon transmitter is neater as it clips into the XLR connector on the mic so you don't have to try and mount the transmitter somewhere ... perfect for a roving microphone of course. With some DIY expertise I'm sure one could rig something that had a little frame with an XLR plug on it that the standard System 10 transmitter could be clipped into.

Richard Crowley · February 24th, 2016, 07:30 AM

The mic that comes with the AT System-10 body-pack transmitter is an electret condenser (as virtually all modern lavs are). All electret condenser mics require power. There are two different ways of powering microphones. One of them is the 48V phantom power typically found on larger microphones with XLR connectors. The other method is called "plug-in power" which uses a very low voltage like 5V. That is the method used by all wireless body-pack transmitters.

Plug-on transmitters are used with XLR microphones, and if they are condenser mics, then they want 48V phantom power. It is challenging to provide that high voltage in a small plug-on transmitter with decent battery life. That is why you don't see those products immediately available when a vendor brings out a new wireless product.

February 18th, 2016, 11:09 AM	#16
Richard Crowley Trustee Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 1,238	Re: Wireless units recommendation I have two Sennheiser G3 systems, two AudioTechnica System-10 kits, and two Azden kits. If anything, the AT System-10s are cleaner than the G3s, But I have not tested them in a heavy 2.4 GHz environment to see how well they play with others. That is my biggest concern with the 2.4GHz technology. I have not tried the Azdens yet, but my expectation is that the performance will be similar to all the other 2.4GHz systems, while physically, they may not have the same stamina and build-quality. Of course it is a big MISTAKE to attempt to judge the quality of ANY wireless kit (at ANY price-level) by the quality of the default supplied microphone. That is an independent issue that has NOTHING to do with the quality of the transmitter, receiver, or the protocol design.

February 18th, 2016, 12:31 PM	#17
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Re: Wireless units recommendation Sennheiser perform well enough for me (I have multiple systems) that I don't worry. I've also got some mains powered receiver version of 2.4GHz kit and that too is pretty good sounding but the amount of 2.4GHz kit now being used - video from GoPros, remotes for audio and lighting devices and of course everyone's phones means the band is busy - my radio systems are not friendly TO the other kit, often letting me hear the lighting people moaning because they lost their link, or the sound designer complaining the link to his pad is up and down. If I needed a new system tomorrow - I'd buy another Sennheiser.

February 18th, 2016, 01:07 PM	#18
Darren Levine Major Player Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: NJ/NYC Posts: 563	Re: Wireless units recommendation i have used the G2's for years, and while they have held up, the bands are getting crowded here in NYC. I do a wide range of video, including client and personal blog/reviews. for the latter, i discovered the sony aw4, a wonderfully simple, small, cheap system based on bluetooth. I also grabbed an at system 10 at that steal of a deal in adorama a bit back ($240!) and that has become my go to for client use and i'm looking to sell my G2 sets For all blogging/review videos, i'm using the sony aw4, and i even toss it into my gig bag as a backup. I have a friend who uses the rodelinks, and he has also used the system 10, he prefers the system 10. When i saw the size of the rodelink transmitters, i was turned off to them. The system 10 pack is also somewhat large, but it's decently flat, which is much preferred to the fatter rodelink. Link reliability i would side with the system 10, 2.4ghz may be a busy spectrum but it can be diced up a bagillion ways, and with these new digital systems they are always scanning for clean pipelines and auto switch for the best signal. That along with auto/simple pairing make them really quite attractive to single shooters. Sound quality i will relate to video cameras: you can pixel peep and side-by-side all you like, but they all can produce 'good' quality if used properly. and of course it all depends on budget and use. One may be better than another, but just because one sounds 'worse' doesn't necessarily mean it sounds 'bad' Mic capsules is another consideration, as universal as the 3.5mm jacks on the G2 are, i prefer the 4 pin locking on the system 10, it's more robust (i've had more than 1 of those screwlock G2 connections deteriorate) Just as important as buying the 'right' audio system is learning how to use it properly. there's some great tutorials out there on how to lav-up a subject. this one in particular is quite nice 7 Ways to Hide a Lavalier Microphone, by Izzy Hyman __________________ C100 - GH4 - NYC Shooter www.DarrenLevine.com

February 19th, 2016, 09:46 PM	#19
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Wireless units recommendation I do like Audio Technica's System 10 as the rode is a little bulky so 2.4GHz is a good way to go. If you are on a tight budget my mate Roger in the UK has a pair of Boya 2.4GB units and he swears by them and has never had an issue despite the fact they are a quarter of the price of the AT or Rode ... For $100 they are definitely worth a try if you are dubious about using the 2.4Ghz system. They also have a talk back facility so it's a cheap 2nd shooter comms system if you don't like it for your main audio. BY-WM5 - BOYA AUDIO EQUIPMENT CO.,LTD

February 20th, 2016, 02:13 AM	#20
Aindreas Lynch Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Kildare, Ireland Posts: 38	Re: Wireless units recommendation What kind of audio quality are you after? If good rather than excellent is what you need then have a look at the Sony ECM-AW4 which is a Bluetooth wireless mic setup. Canon and Nikon also have their own versions of it and are more expensive but the Sony works great. I did a small review of it just to test it - Sony ECM-AW4 Bluetooth Wireless Mic Review \| ATL Photography ? Wedding Photographer Clane Dublin Kildare Ireland Wedding - The sound is raw and as recorded into the camera without any processing. I was using cheap lavs and mic's but if you use good quality mic's the sound is very impressive for the price. I'm not an audio engineer so the sound is good enough for me. They have a range of 50m and last about 3 hours on one battery.

February 20th, 2016, 04:28 AM	#21
Donald McPherson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Aberdeen Scotland Posts: 815	Re: Wireless units recommendation Speaking of cheap Boya. I have these without the display a individual volume control. Whish I had seen them first. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...807796&alt=web

February 20th, 2016, 08:27 AM	#22
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Wireless units recommendation Hi Donald Those look a lot better made than the Boya and you get two transmitters and a dual receiver which is good ..I wonder how long the Li-Ion batteries will last?? I would prefer those to standard cells but it would be a bummer if they died half way thru a shoot. So do you have the same Rowa ones but without a display? It would be nice to get some feedback on these units ... I had an Azden dual system but it was pathetic but my single Azdens still work well!!! Last edited by Chris Harding; February 20th, 2016 at 07:07 PM.

February 20th, 2016, 11:00 AM	#23
Donald McPherson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Aberdeen Scotland Posts: 815	Re: Wireless units recommendation I'm far from an expert. But the first few minutes are using the Rowa's YouTube (Short URL)

February 20th, 2016, 07:14 PM	#24
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Wireless units recommendation That sounds pretty good and thanks for the upload! I wonder if they also make single units too?? I use an XLR adapter on my camera for audio so it has 2 independent channels with all the necessary controls so for me two wireless sets are a better solution. So your Rowa has one output where the left and right channels are combined into a "stereo" output?? Can you control your output levels coming from each transmitter or is the signal coming out the dual receiver a mix ??

February 21st, 2016, 01:46 AM	#25
Donald McPherson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Aberdeen Scotland Posts: 815	Re: Wireless units recommendation The reason I posted the ebay one above. Looks like it has control on the input of the tranciever. The one I have only has one control in the receiver non on the tranciever.

February 21st, 2016, 03:58 AM	#26
Jurgen Bauwens Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Belgium Posts: 33	Re: Wireless units recommendation I have some G2 sets and some EK3041's with sk transmitters, all with tram TR50 lavaliers. The EK series are getting old but still have a beautifull sound and are very low noise. I recently bought the sennheiser AVX wireless system and I'm very impressed by it. Now looking to replace all for avx. It's a very compact, good sounding system at 1.9Ghz so not in the consumer 2.4ghz band. You don't even have to put the system off as it turns itself off and on with the phantom power of the camera. The receiver's battery lasts about 3hours while the transmitter lasts about 8 hours on one battery. One spare battery for the receiver would help you though a long shooting day.

February 22nd, 2016, 05:38 PM	#27
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Wireless units recommendation Hi Donald The transmitter sections may have preset controls inside the battery compartment..have you looked in there? I have two Azden transmitters that have no external level controls but they do give you a mini screwdriver which allows you to adjust the output levels inside the cover.

February 24th, 2016, 06:43 AM	#28
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	Re: Wireless units recommendation I would like to see the System 10 and similar models provide a plug-on transmitted with phantom power to allow use of other mics and take advantage of the improved S/N and frequency response compared to compander-based analog systems. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

February 24th, 2016, 06:57 AM	#29
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Wireless units recommendation The System 10 transmitters are powered so surely they will support a condenser mic .. the mic that comes with the unit from Audio Technica is not a powered mic so surely any other mic will also work?? My old Azden transmitters are similar and when I do weddings I use a desk mic on the lectern (which requires phantom power) and just plug straight into the transmitter ..it gets it's power from there. Can anyone confirm that the System 10 will support non-powered mics?? I would certainly think it would! Admittedly a plugon transmitter is neater as it clips into the XLR connector on the mic so you don't have to try and mount the transmitter somewhere ... perfect for a roving microphone of course. With some DIY expertise I'm sure one could rig something that had a little frame with an XLR plug on it that the standard System 10 transmitter could be clipped into.

February 24th, 2016, 07:30 AM	#30
Richard Crowley Trustee Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 1,238	Re: Wireless units recommendation The mic that comes with the AT System-10 body-pack transmitter is an electret condenser (as virtually all modern lavs are). All electret condenser mics require power. There are two different ways of powering microphones. One of them is the 48V phantom power typically found on larger microphones with XLR connectors. The other method is called "plug-in power" which uses a very low voltage like 5V. That is the method used by all wireless body-pack transmitters. Plug-on transmitters are used with XLR microphones, and if they are condenser mics, then they want 48V phantom power. It is challenging to provide that high voltage in a small plug-on transmitter with decent battery life. That is why you don't see those products immediately available when a vendor brings out a new wireless product.