XL2 Supplied Microphone at DVinfo.net

Ron Kofler · October 21st, 2005, 12:09 AM

Some may say why? But if one does not ask, one will never know.

I am looking for technical advice from any expert audio guys out there. As a cheap way to create a boom mic setup, is it possible to get a two pin mini to XLR adaptor to then use the supplied XL2 mic on a boom pole and use the XLR jacks on the camera? If so this would be a very quick and cheap way to utilise the supplied mic with boom and hence get the mic away from the noises the camera emits.

I don't know enough about the technical side of audio, so don't know if there is a reason why this cannot be done, perhaps it's as simple as, no adapter being available in the market.

Hope someone can answer this question.

Thanks

Ron K

Jason Varner · October 21st, 2005, 04:11 AM

Get a pair of 25' stereo mini m-f jumpers and use those. There is no need to adapt when you can just extend the existing cables.

Steve House · October 21st, 2005, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Kofler

Some may say why? But if one does not ask, one will never know.

I am looking for technical advice from any expert audio guys out there. As a cheap way to create a boom mic setup, is it possible to get a two pin mini to XLR adaptor to then use the supplied XL2 mic on a boom pole and use the XLR jacks on the camera? If so this would be a very quick and cheap way to utilise the supplied mic with boom and hence get the mic away from the noises the camera emits.

I don't know enough about the technical side of audio, so don't know if there is a reason why this cannot be done, perhaps it's as simple as, no adapter being available in the market.

Hope someone can answer this question.

Thanks

Ron K

You could mount the mic separately and use a pair of extension cables, one for each channel, or make up your own 3 or 4 conductor extension but it would probably be better to connect to the front 1/8" mic jacks rather than the XLR's. I dont know for sure if the XL2 is this way but many cameras bias their supplied standard mics with about 5 volts supplied through the mic connector. This is not the same thing as the 48v phantom power available on the XLR connectors. Another problem is that the mic is stereo, unbalanced. While you can adapt a pair of 1/8" minis to the XLRs at the camera end, the whole thing will be unbalanced and you won't have any of the advantages of the balanced XLR connection. Whether you send it to the front 1/8" mic connectors or the rear XLR connectors, a long unbalanced extension is going to be very susceptible to electrical noise pickup.

Greg Boston · October 21st, 2005, 08:52 AM

You'll have to extend both cables because the smaller one carries the voltage for the mic. The larger is a 3 pin with l, r, and ground. Make sure you match connector types exactly.

-gb-

A. J. deLange · October 21st, 2005, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve House

While you can adapt a pair of 1/8" minis to the XLRs at the camera end, the whole thing will be unbalanced...

You can solve this problem by using a balun at the adapter end. This will give you the ability to use the XLR inputs and have the advantages of a balanced cable run.

Steve House · October 21st, 2005, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. J. deLange

You can solve this problem by using a balun at the adapter end. This will give you the ability to use the XLR inputs and have the advantages of a balanced cable run.

Very true, a transformer at the microphone could be used to balance it. But there's still the problem of mic power.

A. J. deLange · October 23rd, 2005, 06:42 AM

That's part of the beauty of a balanced circuit. Mic power can be passed in common mode while the signal goes differential. Apply the required voltage between the center tap of a transformer and the "ground" wire at the camera end and take this voltage off at the mic end between the center tap of the transformer at that end and the ground wire. Be sure to connect the center tap to ground at AC (i.e. through a capacitor) for noise rejection. This is how the phantom power is applied to microphones that use it. In this case the phantom power voltage is, apparently, not correct so we would have to apply the proper one - probably a 9 volt transistor battery would do. Note: No one should try this without consulting someone who understands this kind of circuitry and until the correct applied voltage has been determined by measurement.

Ty Ford · October 23rd, 2005, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Kofler

Some may say why? But if one does not ask, one will never know.

I am looking for technical advice from any expert audio guys out there. As a cheap way to create a boom mic setup, is it possible to get a two pin mini to XLR adaptor to then use the supplied XL2 mic on a boom pole and use the XLR jacks on the camera? If so this would be a very quick and cheap way to utilise the supplied mic with boom and hence get the mic away from the noises the camera emits.

I don't know enough about the technical side of audio, so don't know if there is a reason why this cannot be done, perhaps it's as simple as, no adapter being available in the market.

Hope someone can answer this question.

Thanks

Ron K

Hello Ron,

The XL2 mic is a. not very good, and b. stereo. Here's what you do. Buy a Rode VideoMic with 3m extension. Plug it into the mini TRS. it feeds both inputs very nicely.

The VideoMic also has furry covers for wind and has a thread in its baseplate that allows it to be attached to a standard mic boom.

Problem solved.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Ron Kofler · October 24th, 2005, 06:03 PM

Thanks to everyones replies. They are excellent. I just wanted to know how and why and I got that. Now I go out and but a real XLR mic. I will probably go for a RODE NTG2.

Thanks everyone. Hope to have some links to footage I do in the not too distant future.

Greg Boston · October 24th, 2005, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

Hello Ron,

The XL2 mic is a. not very good, and b. stereo. Here's what you do. Buy a Rode VideoMic with 3m extension. Plug it into the mini TRS. it feeds both inputs very nicely.

The VideoMic also has furry covers for wind and has a thread in its baseplate that allows it to be attached to a standard mic boom.

Problem solved.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Well Ty, Canon is making some progress. In regards to point (b) above, the mic on the new XLH1 is switchable between mono and stereo. I can't speak to point (a) however. ;-)

-gb-

Tony Davies-Patrick · October 31st, 2005, 03:32 AM

I agree that mics on both XL1s and XL2 are terrible. I spent a lot of time trying to improve matters - even with Light Waves systems isolater and MMXL1 Mini Mount - but the end results were never satisifying. Most of my early video tapes needed to be dubbed over due to the XL mic rarely providing clean enough sound. The best way that I found was to use together with one or two other longer shotgun mics and to turn down the volume on the Canon mic, but in the end I finally stopped using the Canon mic completely.
For on-camera mic I mainly use an AT mic clamped inside the Mini Mount + Light Waves system isolater. For off-camera mics I prefer one or two AT mics connected to long XLR leads, together with a Sony wireless mic provide plenty of options for ambient or voice control.

October 21st, 2005, 12:09 AM	#1
Ron Kofler New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 11	XL2 Supplied Microphone Some may say why? But if one does not ask, one will never know. I am looking for technical advice from any expert audio guys out there. As a cheap way to create a boom mic setup, is it possible to get a two pin mini to XLR adaptor to then use the supplied XL2 mic on a boom pole and use the XLR jacks on the camera? If so this would be a very quick and cheap way to utilise the supplied mic with boom and hence get the mic away from the noises the camera emits. I don't know enough about the technical side of audio, so don't know if there is a reason why this cannot be done, perhaps it's as simple as, no adapter being available in the market. Hope someone can answer this question. Thanks Ron K __________________ The 4th wall is as real as your imagination

October 21st, 2005, 04:11 AM	#2
Jason Varner Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 119	Don't Adapt Get a pair of 25' stereo mini m-f jumpers and use those. There is no need to adapt when you can just extend the existing cables.

October 24th, 2005, 06:03 PM	#9
Ron Kofler New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 11	Thanks to everyones replies. They are excellent. I just wanted to know how and why and I got that. Now I go out and but a real XLR mic. I will probably go for a RODE NTG2. Thanks everyone. Hope to have some links to footage I do in the not too distant future. __________________ The 4th wall is as real as your imagination

October 31st, 2005, 03:32 AM	#11
Tony Davies-Patrick Trustee Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Worldwide Posts: 1,589	I agree that mics on both XL1s and XL2 are terrible. I spent a lot of time trying to improve matters - even with Light Waves systems isolater and MMXL1 Mini Mount - but the end results were never satisifying. Most of my early video tapes needed to be dubbed over due to the XL mic rarely providing clean enough sound. The best way that I found was to use together with one or two other longer shotgun mics and to turn down the volume on the Canon mic, but in the end I finally stopped using the Canon mic completely. For on-camera mic I mainly use an AT mic clamped inside the Mini Mount + Light Waves system isolater. For off-camera mics I prefer one or two AT mics connected to long XLR leads, together with a Sony wireless mic provide plenty of options for ambient or voice control. __________________ www.WILDCARP.com www.NIKON.me.uk

October 21st, 2005, 08:52 AM	#4
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	You'll have to extend both cables because the smaller one carries the voltage for the mic. The larger is a 3 pin with l, r, and ground. Make sure you match connector types exactly. -gb-

October 23rd, 2005, 06:42 AM	#7
A. J. deLange Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: McLean, VA United States Posts: 749	That's part of the beauty of a balanced circuit. Mic power can be passed in common mode while the signal goes differential. Apply the required voltage between the center tap of a transformer and the "ground" wire at the camera end and take this voltage off at the mic end between the center tap of the transformer at that end and the ground wire. Be sure to connect the center tap to ground at AC (i.e. through a capacitor) for noise rejection. This is how the phantom power is applied to microphones that use it. In this case the phantom power voltage is, apparently, not correct so we would have to apply the proper one - probably a 9 volt transistor battery would do. Note: No one should try this without consulting someone who understands this kind of circuitry and until the correct applied voltage has been determined by measurement.