Need NR Advice for Bad Recording at DVinfo.net

Dan Brockett · November 25th, 2015, 09:39 AM

Hi all:

I have a multicam project I am editing in FCP 7.03 Unfortunately the camera that was assigned to record the board feed ended up with corrupt media so I have no quality audio feed of the event. Fortunately, I placed two backup digital recorders, a Zoom H4N and a Tascam DR-40 at each of the podiums that most of the speakers spoke at and we have audio from three other camera mics so for the most part, the audio is usable, if not very great. The only time I am completely hosed is when the main speaker went into the audience with a handheld mic to get testimonials from audience members, I have very little signal to work with. Some of the speakers projected through the PA and the Zoom and Tascam captured semi-usable levels but for some, the person giving the testimonial mumbled and did not project. I am using the noise reduction in Soundtrack Pro, which is so so, it helps, but not enough. I am boosting the low levels, bit of EQ, bit of compression but of course, that is bringing the noise floor way up. If I apply more than a little of the Soundtrack Pro NR, it sounds metallic and hollow. Having a hard time getting legible levels without massive noise.

Anyone have any suggestions for a better, more sophisticated stand alone NR program that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? I do not have Logic or Pro Tools anymore so I don't think I have a plug-in host, unless the program can plug into Soundtrack Pro? I used the Waves Resoration bundle years ago and it was great but expensive and I've reviewed Izotope and it was decent too but not sure if it is available stand alone, costs, etc. Just wanted to put it out there to see if there are others that I am overlooking that are inexpensive, simple and would do better than the built-in STP NR? I am not an expert sound mixer for audio post, but I at least understand the fundamentals.

I may also be open to sourcing this out to a person who does have the right tools rather than trying to do it myself, if the cost is reasonable. It's probably a total of about 10-12 minutes of audio with half a dozen speakers with varying levels of quality. I am sure that someone talented could do a better job than I can with the right tools, but this is a super low budget live event that I am barely making anything on editing so I cannot spend a lot to fix the issues. It's killing me that I am an audio writer, I did my due diligence in recording the board output and had back ups but I am still going to end up with crappy audio for this portion of the project. I should have ran a backup recorder on the board output but didn't, learned my lesson, but I didn't have three extra digital recorders and I thought backing up at the podiums was a better idea. Live and learn. I hate shooting live events, exactly because of things like this, did this one more as a favor for a friend in need.

Ideas? Input? Are you a noise reduction expert who wants to make a few bucks on this? Let me know your advice on how to fix this. I told the client it's never going to sound "good" but I can make it better than it is and more legible.

Gordon Hoffman · November 26th, 2015, 08:20 AM

Dan Isotope has a 10 day free trial that you can download to try. RX5 is the newest and it should work as a standalone.

Gordon

Graham Bernard · November 27th, 2015, 12:41 AM

I use RX4 and would be willing to "test" the output for you. Post the worst you got and a sample of the "good".

G

Mark Fry · December 11th, 2015, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Brockett

...If I apply more than a little of the Soundtrack Pro NR, it sounds metallic and hollow. Having a hard time getting legible levels without massive noise...

The only tip I can pass on is this: you may get better results by re-applying a small amount of NR several times, rather than trying to do it all in one hit. If you can work on different, narrow frequency ranges on each pass, that may also help.

I had a similar problem once. Because of equipment failure, I had to use audio recorded by an on-camera mic. The mic has rather a tinny sound (little bass), there was a lot of camera motor noise. Fortunately, I still had access to the camera/mic combination, so I recorded a couple of minutes of the camera only (ran it under the bedclothes!) then used Adobe Audition to "subtract" the sound of the camera from the location audio. Audition let me narrow the frequncy range to just the intrusive / most noticeable part of the camera noise, and I think I did 3 passes, reducing a slightly different band each time. Then I did another couple of passes tweaking the EQ, trying to compensate a little for the tinny microphone without re-introducing the motor noise.

I quickly found that "less is more" - boosting or cutting anything too heavily gives an unnatural sound. The best one can hope for is to take the edge off the intrusive noise so it doesn't distract the viewer from what's going on.

Dan Brockett · December 13th, 2015, 06:09 PM

Hi all:

An update. I am still editing this project and had two sound pros take a crack at this bad sounding footage. Both were overall, able to improve the sound but it is still illegible in places because the subjects mumbling and there just not being much signal there work with.

I purchased Izotope RX5 and have been using it. It works pretty well but I think I am still going to end up using subtitles on the video. I did a NR pass in Izotope RX5 and then did a pass of compression and EQ in Soundtrack Pro, using the built-in Logic plug in effects. It's getting there, but is a push me/pull you process, the more noise I reduce, the better it all sounds but some of the voices are just too low. When I boost them up using EQ and compression, the noise comes back with the boosted level. I tried boosting the levels first, then applying the NR but the end result is about the same.

For anyone contemplating it, I highly advise Izotope RX5. With good sounding audio that just has a few little problems with sirens in the BG or dog barks, leaf blowers, you would be amazed at what it can cleanly remove. Same with HVAC noise or hum, pops, clicks, etc. It really is almost magical at how well it can work. $349.00 but well worth it for video editors. Interface is not too difficult for us non-audio engineers.

November 25th, 2015, 09:39 AM	#1
Dan Brockett Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 2,109	Need NR Advice for Bad Recording Hi all: I have a multicam project I am editing in FCP 7.03 Unfortunately the camera that was assigned to record the board feed ended up with corrupt media so I have no quality audio feed of the event. Fortunately, I placed two backup digital recorders, a Zoom H4N and a Tascam DR-40 at each of the podiums that most of the speakers spoke at and we have audio from three other camera mics so for the most part, the audio is usable, if not very great. The only time I am completely hosed is when the main speaker went into the audience with a handheld mic to get testimonials from audience members, I have very little signal to work with. Some of the speakers projected through the PA and the Zoom and Tascam captured semi-usable levels but for some, the person giving the testimonial mumbled and did not project. I am using the noise reduction in Soundtrack Pro, which is so so, it helps, but not enough. I am boosting the low levels, bit of EQ, bit of compression but of course, that is bringing the noise floor way up. If I apply more than a little of the Soundtrack Pro NR, it sounds metallic and hollow. Having a hard time getting legible levels without massive noise. Anyone have any suggestions for a better, more sophisticated stand alone NR program that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? I do not have Logic or Pro Tools anymore so I don't think I have a plug-in host, unless the program can plug into Soundtrack Pro? I used the Waves Resoration bundle years ago and it was great but expensive and I've reviewed Izotope and it was decent too but not sure if it is available stand alone, costs, etc. Just wanted to put it out there to see if there are others that I am overlooking that are inexpensive, simple and would do better than the built-in STP NR? I am not an expert sound mixer for audio post, but I at least understand the fundamentals. I may also be open to sourcing this out to a person who does have the right tools rather than trying to do it myself, if the cost is reasonable. It's probably a total of about 10-12 minutes of audio with half a dozen speakers with varying levels of quality. I am sure that someone talented could do a better job than I can with the right tools, but this is a super low budget live event that I am barely making anything on editing so I cannot spend a lot to fix the issues. It's killing me that I am an audio writer, I did my due diligence in recording the board output and had back ups but I am still going to end up with crappy audio for this portion of the project. I should have ran a backup recorder on the board output but didn't, learned my lesson, but I didn't have three extra digital recorders and I thought backing up at the podiums was a better idea. Live and learn. I hate shooting live events, exactly because of things like this, did this one more as a favor for a friend in need. Ideas? Input? Are you a noise reduction expert who wants to make a few bucks on this? Let me know your advice on how to fix this. I told the client it's never going to sound "good" but I can make it better than it is and more legible.

November 26th, 2015, 08:20 AM	#2
Gordon Hoffman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Pincher Creek, Alberta Canada Posts: 619	Re: Need NR Advice for Bad Recording Dan Isotope has a 10 day free trial that you can download to try. RX5 is the newest and it should work as a standalone. Gordon

November 27th, 2015, 12:41 AM	#3
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	Re: Need NR Advice for Bad Recording I use RX4 and would be willing to "test" the output for you. Post the worst you got and a sample of the "good". G

December 13th, 2015, 06:09 PM	#5
Dan Brockett Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 2,109	Re: Need NR Advice for Bad Recording Hi all: An update. I am still editing this project and had two sound pros take a crack at this bad sounding footage. Both were overall, able to improve the sound but it is still illegible in places because the subjects mumbling and there just not being much signal there work with. I purchased Izotope RX5 and have been using it. It works pretty well but I think I am still going to end up using subtitles on the video. I did a NR pass in Izotope RX5 and then did a pass of compression and EQ in Soundtrack Pro, using the built-in Logic plug in effects. It's getting there, but is a push me/pull you process, the more noise I reduce, the better it all sounds but some of the voices are just too low. When I boost them up using EQ and compression, the noise comes back with the boosted level. I tried boosting the levels first, then applying the NR but the end result is about the same. For anyone contemplating it, I highly advise Izotope RX5. With good sounding audio that just has a few little problems with sirens in the BG or dog barks, leaf blowers, you would be amazed at what it can cleanly remove. Same with HVAC noise or hum, pops, clicks, etc. It really is almost magical at how well it can work. $349.00 but well worth it for video editors. Interface is not too difficult for us non-audio engineers.