Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo

Jim Andrada · September 10th, 2015, 08:58 PM

Thanks much - congratulations!

Jon Fairhurst · September 11th, 2015, 01:07 AM

Yes, congratulations on a successful production! Best of luck with the edit and the final result!

Craig McKenna · September 11th, 2015, 05:52 AM

Thanks everyone. I got all the footage loaded last night. Three solid angles and the GoPro with a few mistakes with how I framed it. Should be pretty cool... Just need to wait for the mix! :)

Looking forward to posting it, and thanks very much again!!!

Paul R Johnson · September 11th, 2015, 05:55 AM

did the mics get in the way much?

Craig McKenna · September 11th, 2015, 10:42 AM

We had the two main mics in shot in the middle, but they kinda looked epic. I liked them there tbh. Then because the AX100 was centre and shooting over the conductor, I didn't have any mics in the shot. Following this, I had the low camera for interest on a slider - but some of the mics stands blocked faces on this shot. Then the GH4 to the right had a couple of faces missing due to the mics in the middle - but I couldn't really get my tripod any higher and still operate it. I think if I were able to get onto a higher platform, it would have looked better, but then I wouldn't have been able to check on it either...

I look forward to hearing people's comments for this reason though, as I may be pleased with something that you dislike, and then I can learn more from that...

Steven Digges · September 11th, 2015, 11:16 AM

Congratulations Craig! You say there is already things you would do different..... I have been doing this well over twenty years. I do not think I have EVER done a multi cam shoot when I did not see something in post I could have done better. Learning is a never ending process. I have worked with guys that think they know it all, I am not one of them.

I am looking forward to seeing the film.

Steve

Steven Digges · September 11th, 2015, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

Living in a part of the country without decent roads was always my excuse for not renting, and in my forty year career, avoided it in the main, WASTING huge amounts of money. I've lost count of the kit I bought for one off projects that I'm now storing and sits around unused. I could hire it out but am reluctant. My accountant says I'm mad. Audio and video gear just sitting around, some of it now ancient. I thought I had a betacam sitting around somewhere, and found two! I remember buying it second hand for a single project, then putting it on a shelf in the store. I used a portable production unit for some shows in 2005 and that hasn't been touched since then, a bargain Vinten camera crane it's huge and mega heavy. I do not want to sell it, because one day a project will appear that I can use it for. I am stupid. This need to buy rather than hire has cost me dearly over the years , but I still do it. I'm looking at a flight case with two very weird LED fixtures I bought for a project in April. They're useless for general use, and I have no idea why I didn't just hire some in.

I think it's just a cultural thing, the need to collect interesting kit. Hire is sensible, and cost effective, but just not 'yours'. Totally daft!

This made me laugh because it is exactly what I do. I have a room we call my AV bone yard because I never get rid of old gear. My audio guy is also a friend of mine. Unfortunately he moved out of state last month. He told me he was thinking about video recording some of the bands he does audio for just for fun. We went to my bone yard and I found an old Canon XL1 and a Sony Hi-8 camcorder. I gave them both to him and said go have fun. I never sell old stuff because I hate the hit you take on it. I read about some guys on this forum that wheel and deal gear on e-bay so often it is like their local grocery store. I just cant do it!

Steve

Steve

Jon Fairhurst · September 11th, 2015, 03:12 PM

The one place where I have "wheeled and dealed" is lenses. I started off with, well, the wrong lens for my needs. I then got a Nikon lens to EF mount adapter and had an extended loan of some old Nikon primes. I then sold my wrong lens and got a series of Canon EF primes. From there, I sold something like six standard primes and upgraded to three L lenses. Now that I have my "keepers", I've slowed down. Except that Canon now seems to be releasing superior updates to my Ls. Hmmm...

Mics are a different story. Like lenses, they hold their value, but I tend to keep what I have. Electronics lose value so sharply that the buy-sell model doesn't work nearly as well.

But back on topic, I'm looking forward to seeing and hearing the choir and learning more about the story...

Craig McKenna · September 12th, 2015, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Digges

Congratulations Craig! You say there is already things you would do different..... I have been doing this well over twenty years. I do not think I have EVER done a multi cam shoot when I did not see something in post I could have done better. Learning is a never ending process. I have worked with guys that think they know it all, I am not one of them.

I am looking forward to seeing the film.

Steve

Thanks Steve! The mix is nearing completion for the audio engineer, so hopefully I'll be able to get to work on it next week. Although I'm busy, I'll try my best to get it all done and finished in the next week or two!

Cheers Steve!

Craig McKenna · September 16th, 2015, 04:25 PM

A special thank you to everyone who was able to help me. I am extremely lucky to have found this board, and extremely pleased to be able to share what I hope will be a reasonably well-received recording of a live song. The audio engineer did a great job (from what I can tell) with the mix, and most things that I was hoping would work out reasonably well, did. However, there are a few things that I found frustrating. E.g. one of the sides of the hall was yellow to a point of being out of sync with the overall feel / colour. Therefore, I've toned down the yellow and added blue, but I think this shows a little too much in one of the shots - much better than how it was though. Also, I didn't realise the extent to how wide the GoPro would be, even with a person being directly in front of it... so there's an unfortunate 'selfie' of me in the film as well; but I felt that the shots were too important to leave out, as the piece is to showcase the client's talents as a conductor.

Hope you all think it's worthy:

Thanks again!

Craig

P.s. The second song will follow at the weekend.

Jim Michael · September 16th, 2015, 04:44 PM

Great job. They should be very proud of their production.

Jim Andrada · September 17th, 2015, 01:27 PM

Very nice job - congratulations!

By the way, do you know what mics were used? Reverb works very very well - makes it feel natural for the surrounfings

Bruce Watson · September 17th, 2015, 02:40 PM

Nicely done! Good on ya.

And you weren't kidding about the long trail in that hall. But I'm sorta doubting the 9 seconds. I'm thinking the T60 time is more like 5-6 seconds. Still very long, but more manageable.

Interesting how your audio guy decided he needed to be quite close, in front of the director. And low. But... he was right. All you have to do is listen to it.

So... what are the details on the micing? I think I can tell by looking and listening, but it's always nice to know for sure.

You should be a happy guy, and your client should be equally happy. If they wanted a promo that shows what they can do, they surely got it.

(And I did like the ceiling shot ;-)

Jim Andrada · September 17th, 2015, 07:50 PM

Yeah - the reverb doesn't sound anywhere near as bad as I would have thought. On the other hand looking at the interior space it's clear that they knew what they were doing acoustically re materials and structural details when they designed the space.

Paul R Johnson · September 18th, 2015, 09:56 AM

Impressive on many fronts. In a way, a more tricky space with the very flat and open floor - so probably why the low mic position worked well as the audio guy also recognised the benefit of M/S by the looks of it, to give a bit of after recording adjustment. The piece was ideal for the space.

How did the actual recordings go? How many takes and problems?

September 10th, 2015, 08:58 PM	#106
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo Thanks much - congratulations!

September 11th, 2015, 01:07 AM	#107
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo Yes, congratulations on a successful production! Best of luck with the edit and the final result! __________________ Jon Fairhurst

September 11th, 2015, 05:52 AM	#108
Craig McKenna Major Player Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Liverpool Posts: 495	Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo Thanks everyone. I got all the footage loaded last night. Three solid angles and the GoPro with a few mistakes with how I framed it. Should be pretty cool... Just need to wait for the mix! :) Looking forward to posting it, and thanks very much again!!!

September 11th, 2015, 05:55 AM	#109
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,046	Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo did the mics get in the way much?

September 11th, 2015, 10:42 AM	#110
Craig McKenna Major Player Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Liverpool Posts: 495	Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo We had the two main mics in shot in the middle, but they kinda looked epic. I liked them there tbh. Then because the AX100 was centre and shooting over the conductor, I didn't have any mics in the shot. Following this, I had the low camera for interest on a slider - but some of the mics stands blocked faces on this shot. Then the GH4 to the right had a couple of faces missing due to the mics in the middle - but I couldn't really get my tripod any higher and still operate it. I think if I were able to get onto a higher platform, it would have looked better, but then I wouldn't have been able to check on it either... I look forward to hearing people's comments for this reason though, as I may be pleased with something that you dislike, and then I can learn more from that...

September 11th, 2015, 11:16 AM	#111
Steven Digges Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,828	Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo Congratulations Craig! You say there is already things you would do different..... I have been doing this well over twenty years. I do not think I have EVER done a multi cam shoot when I did not see something in post I could have done better. Learning is a never ending process. I have worked with guys that think they know it all, I am not one of them. I am looking forward to seeing the film. Steve __________________ www.CorporateShow.com Been at this so long I'm rounding my years of experience down...not up!

September 11th, 2015, 03:12 PM	#113
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo The one place where I have "wheeled and dealed" is lenses. I started off with, well, the wrong lens for my needs. I then got a Nikon lens to EF mount adapter and had an extended loan of some old Nikon primes. I then sold my wrong lens and got a series of Canon EF primes. From there, I sold something like six standard primes and upgraded to three L lenses. Now that I have my "keepers", I've slowed down. Except that Canon now seems to be releasing superior updates to my Ls. Hmmm... Mics are a different story. Like lenses, they hold their value, but I tend to keep what I have. Electronics lose value so sharply that the buy-sell model doesn't work nearly as well. But back on topic, I'm looking forward to seeing and hearing the choir and learning more about the story... __________________ Jon Fairhurst

September 16th, 2015, 04:25 PM	#115
Craig McKenna Major Player Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Liverpool Posts: 495	Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo A special thank you to everyone who was able to help me. I am extremely lucky to have found this board, and extremely pleased to be able to share what I hope will be a reasonably well-received recording of a live song. The audio engineer did a great job (from what I can tell) with the mix, and most things that I was hoping would work out reasonably well, did. However, there are a few things that I found frustrating. E.g. one of the sides of the hall was yellow to a point of being out of sync with the overall feel / colour. Therefore, I've toned down the yellow and added blue, but I think this shows a little too much in one of the shots - much better than how it was though. Also, I didn't realise the extent to how wide the GoPro would be, even with a person being directly in front of it... so there's an unfortunate 'selfie' of me in the film as well; but I felt that the shots were too important to leave out, as the piece is to showcase the client's talents as a conductor. Hope you all think it's worthy: If Ye Love Me on Vimeo Thanks again! Craig P.s. The second song will follow at the weekend.

September 16th, 2015, 04:44 PM	#116
Jim Michael Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 895	Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo Great job. They should be very proud of their production.

September 17th, 2015, 01:27 PM	#117
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo Very nice job - congratulations! By the way, do you know what mics were used? Reverb works very very well - makes it feel natural for the surrounfings

September 17th, 2015, 02:40 PM	#118
Bruce Watson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Raleigh, NC, USA Posts: 710	Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo Nicely done! Good on ya. And you weren't kidding about the long trail in that hall. But I'm sorta doubting the 9 seconds. I'm thinking the T60 time is more like 5-6 seconds. Still very long, but more manageable. Interesting how your audio guy decided he needed to be quite close, in front of the director. And low. But... he was right. All you have to do is listen to it. So... what are the details on the micing? I think I can tell by looking and listening, but it's always nice to know for sure. You should be a happy guy, and your client should be equally happy. If they wanted a promo that shows what they can do, they surely got it. (And I did like the ceiling shot ;-)

September 17th, 2015, 07:50 PM	#119
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo Yeah - the reverb doesn't sound anywhere near as bad as I would have thought. On the other hand looking at the interior space it's clear that they knew what they were doing acoustically re materials and structural details when they designed the space.

September 18th, 2015, 09:56 AM	#120
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,046	Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo Impressive on many fronts. In a way, a more tricky space with the very flat and open floor - so probably why the low mic position worked well as the audio guy also recognised the benefit of M/S by the looks of it, to give a bit of after recording adjustment. The piece was ideal for the space. How did the actual recordings go? How many takes and problems?