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#1 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 3,005
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Too loud
I've been having a problem lately recording musicals. During loud high pitched parts of the song the audio will start to crackle. I checked the levels in my camera and they aren't in the red getting clipped. I'm using an Audio Technica AT897 shotgun into my camera and as backup Zoom H4N (both react the same).
My friend told me that volume is exceeding the mic or the pre amp of the respective recording device. Anyone else film this type of work and can make a recommendation. Btw, I'm not setup near the sound system speakers. It's a challenging to handle the quiet dialog alternated with loud singing. |
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#2 |
Major Player
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Raleigh, NC, USA
Posts: 710
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Re: Too loud
That's a clue. Assuming you mean that the Zoom is recording off its internal mics and not from a splitter for the AT897, this would point you toward the venue's speakers, or at least their audio chain. Not a lot you can do about that.
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#3 |
Trustee
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,238
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Re: Too loud
It is not clear to us what "and as backup Zoom H4N" means? Unless you can reveal the exact interconnection scheme, we can't really offer much more than generic suggestions.
As Mr. Watson said, if you are saying that the Zoom H4n mics independently pick up this high-frequency distortion, then that would indicate that the distortion is already in the air before it gets to any of your microphones. But if you have some other connection scheme (please let us know), then it may mean that the first mic preamp (in your unidentified camera? or in the H4n?) is getting overloaded before it even gets to the audio level control. Or it could even mean that the distortion is happening in the microphone itself because it isn't rated for such high sound levels. You can't expect automatic operation from ANY equipment to adequately deal with such a wide dynamic range as quiet dialog and loud music. Consider recording the microphone to TWO tracks, one of them 15-20dB down from the first. That way you will have adequate gain for quiet dialog, and use the other track for undistorted loud music. |
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#4 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 3,005
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Re: Too loud
H4N was recording separately using its own built in mics and wasn't fed into the camera.
The distortion wasn't in their sound system. I pulled off my headphones during the performance to check. |
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#5 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 2,038
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Re: Too loud
I've heard (and seen) much worse. If that's the worst of it, a 'Clipped Peak restoration' plug-in may help somewhat. In the future, moving the mics further away from the sound source, .. or different mics that can handle higher sound pressure levels. (SPL)
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#6 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 3,005
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Re: Too loud
I'm filming at the back of the auditorium at least 30 ft away from their speakers.
There are worse sections than the attachment I posted. That was just to give you a sample of what I'm hearing. |
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#7 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lowestoft - UK
Posts: 4,039
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Re: Too loud
I'm surprised that they are having a video made - here in the UK recordings (audio and video) are strictly banned, and it's in the contract they sign.
On the quality front - that quality seems pretty typical of the sound of recording a PA system with mics - always sounds a bit harsh. Direct from the mixer is of course best, but usually tricky to manage. |
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#8 | |
Inner Circle
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 3,005
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Re: Too loud
Quote:
There was an old thread recently bumped about filming these type of events. Audio is always a headache. Often it's difficult to get a board feed and when you do it's usually unusable. Students usually are running the board and don't have a clue. You never know what you're getting into until it's too late. In hindsight I should have pushed for a board feed. |
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#9 |
Trustee
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Burlington
Posts: 1,976
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Re: Too loud
Most mics that can be both battery powered and phantom powered have different ratings for maximum SPL and dynamic range. The specs on the AT897 show a really wide difference between battery and phantom powering (14db).
Do you remember which way yours was powered? And if by battery, was it a known good one? Those factors would make a really big difference in this case of very high volumes. |
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#10 |
Trustee
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,238
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Re: Too loud
I am VERY surprised that you have the legal permission to record that show. Typically, the contracts for big-name shows like that don't even allow still photographs, much less audio or video recordings. Regardless of distribution. And, of course "copies for cast members" does not preclude proper licensing. In the USA, it is illegal to distribute (EVEN FOR FREE) audio or video recordings of copyright material without release/license from the rights-holder.
From the sound of the clip you have a hearing-challenged, out-of-control, rock-music person running the FOH mix, and the excess SPL is distorting your microphones. Hope you are providing earplugs for the audience. |
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#11 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 3,005
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Re: Too loud
I think I've figured it out. The culprit seems to be the camera (JVC HM600) pre amp.
When I plugged the mic into my sound device mixer the problem went away. When I plugged the mic into my camera or used the camera's internal mic the crackling returned when I let out a loud sustained note. |
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#12 | |
Trustee
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,082
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Re: Too loud
Quote:
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#13 |
Wrangler
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,487
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Re: Too loud
Probably not your case (you appear to have isolated it), but overdriven or damaged cones in speakers/head sets can cause problems similar to what you are describing.
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dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com |
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#14 |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Clare Michigan
Posts: 71
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Re: Too loud
Ask the sound guy for a feed. A stereo feed if your can accept 2 channels.That's what most do. Or at the very least, bring an audio recorder and plug it into a feed from the audio console. The signal will usually have a compressor or a limiter on it to keep peaks in check. That way you can blend your mic recording with the dry signal to get a livelier overall sound.
We do it all the time. Sublime Lighting LLC
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John 14-6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. |
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#15 | |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lowestoft - UK
Posts: 4,039
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Re: Too loud
Quote:
Not having a go at you, but much of my work involves professional theatre video and audio recording - most for archive or legal purposes and the hoops I have to jump through take a lot of work, compliance wise - it just gets me when educational people just think they can ignore the rules! |
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