Too loud

[Pete Cofrancesco]

I've been having a problem lately recording musicals. During loud high pitched parts of the song the audio will start to crackle. I checked the levels in my camera and they aren't in the red getting clipped. I'm using an Audio Technica AT897 shotgun into my camera and as backup Zoom H4N (both react the same).

My friend told me that volume is exceeding the mic or the pre amp of the respective recording device. Anyone else film this type of work and can make a recommendation.


Btw, I'm not setup near the sound system speakers. It's a challenging to handle the quiet dialog alternated with loud singing.

[Bruce Watson]

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

(both react the same).

That's a clue. Assuming you mean that the Zoom is recording off its internal mics and not from a splitter for the AT897, this would point you toward the venue's speakers, or at least their audio chain. Not a lot you can do about that.

[Richard Crowley]

It is not clear to us what "and as backup Zoom H4N" means? Unless you can reveal the exact interconnection scheme, we can't really offer much more than generic suggestions.

As Mr. Watson said, if you are saying that the Zoom H4n mics independently pick up this high-frequency distortion, then that would indicate that the distortion is already in the air before it gets to any of your microphones.

But if you have some other connection scheme (please let us know), then it may mean that the first mic preamp (in your unidentified camera? or in the H4n?) is getting overloaded before it even gets to the audio level control. Or it could even mean that the distortion is happening in the microphone itself because it isn't rated for such high sound levels.

You can't expect automatic operation from ANY equipment to adequately deal with such a wide dynamic range as quiet dialog and loud music. Consider recording the microphone to TWO tracks, one of them 15-20dB down from the first. That way you will have adequate gain for quiet dialog, and use the other track for undistorted loud music.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

H4N was recording separately using its own built in mics and wasn't fed into the camera.

The distortion wasn't in their sound system. I pulled off my headphones during the performance to check.

[Rick Reineke]

I've heard (and seen) much worse. If that's the worst of it, a 'Clipped Peak restoration' plug-in may help somewhat. In the future, moving the mics further away from the sound source, .. or different mics that can handle higher sound pressure levels. (SPL)

[Pete Cofrancesco]

I'm filming at the back of the auditorium at least 30 ft away from their speakers.

There are worse sections than the attachment I posted. That was just to give you a sample of what I'm hearing.

[Paul R Johnson]

I'm surprised that they are having a video made - here in the UK recordings (audio and video) are strictly banned, and it's in the contract they sign.

On the quality front - that quality seems pretty typical of the sound of recording a PA system with mics - always sounds a bit harsh. Direct from the mixer is of course best, but usually tricky to manage.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

I'm surprised that they are having a video made - here in the UK recordings (audio and video) are strictly banned, and it's in the contract they sign.

On the quality front - that quality seems pretty typical of the sound of recording a PA system with mics - always sounds a bit harsh. Direct from the mixer is of course best, but usually tricky to manage.

These are amateur high school productions. No one is buying a dvd unless they're related to a cast member. If you go by the letter of the law...

There was an old thread recently bumped about filming these type of events. Audio is always a headache. Often it's difficult to get a board feed and when you do it's usually unusable. Students usually are running the board and don't have a clue.

You never know what you're getting into until it's too late. In hindsight I should have pushed for a board feed.

[Jay Massengill]

Most mics that can be both battery powered and phantom powered have different ratings for maximum SPL and dynamic range. The specs on the AT897 show a really wide difference between battery and phantom powering (14db).
Do you remember which way yours was powered? And if by battery, was it a known good one?
Those factors would make a really big difference in this case of very high volumes.

[Richard Crowley]

I am VERY surprised that you have the legal permission to record that show. Typically, the contracts for big-name shows like that don't even allow still photographs, much less audio or video recordings. Regardless of distribution. And, of course "copies for cast members" does not preclude proper licensing. In the USA, it is illegal to distribute (EVEN FOR FREE) audio or video recordings of copyright material without release/license from the rights-holder.

From the sound of the clip you have a hearing-challenged, out-of-control, rock-music person running the FOH mix, and the excess SPL is distorting your microphones. Hope you are providing earplugs for the audience.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

I think I've figured it out. The culprit seems to be the camera (JVC HM600) pre amp.

When I plugged the mic into my sound device mixer the problem went away. When I plugged the mic into my camera or used the camera's internal mic the crackling returned when I let out a loud sustained note.

[Mike Watson]

Originally Posted by Richard Crowley

I am VERY surprised that you have the legal permission to record that show. Typically, the contracts for big-name shows like that don't even allow still photographs, much less audio or video recordings. Regardless of distribution. And, of course "copies for cast members" does not preclude proper licensing.

The show is generally licensed piecemeal or as a package deal by the org putting on the local production. Rights to the show, $1k. 20 copies of the script, $200. Patterns to make costumes, $500. Rights to make video for cast and crew, $500. All of the above, $2k. I have done shows like this and generally don't worry about the copyright, but for a particular production I asked to see the contract to read what the video rights were, and truly, they had purchased rights for me to be able to shoot and distribute.

[Don Palomaki]

Probably not your case (you appear to have isolated it), but overdriven or damaged cones in speakers/head sets can cause problems similar to what you are describing.

[Brian Berg]

Ask the sound guy for a feed. A stereo feed if your can accept 2 channels.That's what most do. Or at the very least, bring an audio recorder and plug it into a feed from the audio console. The signal will usually have a compressor or a limiter on it to keep peaks in check. That way you can blend your mic recording with the dry signal to get a livelier overall sound.

We do it all the time.




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[Paul R Johnson]

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

These are amateur high school productions. No one is buying a dvd unless they're related to a cast member. If you go by the letter of the law...

There was an old thread recently bumped about filming these type of events. Audio is always a headache. Often it's difficult to get a board feed and when you do it's usually unusable. Students usually are running the board and don't have a clue.

You never know what you're getting into until it's too late. In hindsight I should have pushed for a board feed.

The school sign a contract which has the no recording clause in it - and they just ignore it. I know that so many schools do it, and many HAVE to record it because they use it for grades - which need evidence. However - how do they justify breaking a legal agreement to the kids? What does it say to the kids about the importance of copyright?

Not having a go at you, but much of my work involves professional theatre video and audio recording - most for archive or legal purposes and the hoops I have to jump through take a lot of work, compliance wise - it just gets me when educational people just think they can ignore the rules!