DJ used wrong CD speed at DVinfo.net

Chris Hewitt · July 29th, 2014, 04:28 AM

HI all, hope you can help....
I shot a First Dance at a wedding the other day and the DJ told me he would use the true playback speed of the song he was going to use but he didn't in the end.
In the edit, I prefer to mix and sync the live sound from camera with a CD track of the same song to get a better and fuller sound but obviously, I have a problem here not only in pitch but also length.
I have tried stretching the live audio on the timeline (Sony Vegas Pro 12) but it's so hit and miss and I can't get anywhere near it.
Any advice would be greatfully received....I also have Sound Forge to work with if that helps.

Noa Put · July 29th, 2014, 04:47 AM

Adobe audition does a very good job adjusting the length without any apparent artifacts. If you want you can render out the recorded song from your camera (so the song with the wrong speed) and the cd song that needs adjusting and send me those, can't promise anything but could try to see if I can get it right.

Chris Harding · July 29th, 2014, 04:55 AM

Hi Chris

Have you tried an audio envelope on the track ...With that you can just do a ctrl drag to make the track slower but then you will have to do the same with the video. Otherwise export just the audio only out and most audio editors will be able to slow it and preserve the length. I use Goldwave which does it fine.

Chris Hewitt · July 29th, 2014, 05:48 AM

Hi Noa and Chris, thanks for your answers.
I have tried adjusting the length of the track to sync up with the CD track on the timeline. Trouble is, I get close in one area and the rest goes out.
Noa, that's really kind of you...I have a render going at the moment. Soon as that's finished, I'll put up the two audio files here.
Chris, using the audio envelope was my first thought but I didn't think Vegas had an envelope where you could adjust the playback speed like it does for the video track. I thought the audio envelopes were for muting and volume. Must recheck that but the edit PC is tied up at present with the render.

Chris Hewitt · July 29th, 2014, 06:16 AM

Hi Noa, what is the best way to get these two wav files to you? There is a max upload limit on this site.

Chris, had a look at audio envelopes and can't find velocity, only pan, mute and volume.
Though, I think you could make the adjustment by grouping the video with the audio but haven't tried that.

Thanks guys!

Rick Reineke · July 29th, 2014, 07:46 AM

Assuming you Vegas Pro, Time stretching and compressing events is the process of using the same amount of source media to fill a shorter or longer event. While this can be done to both video and audio events, the two cases are fundamentally different. Press Ctrl and drag the edge of the event toward the center of the event to compress (shorten) it or drag the edge out away from the center to stretch (lengthen) it. You can see the results of the time compression or stretching by viewing the properties of the event. Right-click the event and choose Properties from the shortcut menu. Time compressing/stretching an audio event affects the Time stretch/pitch shift settings, while Time compressing/stretching a video event affects the Playback rate setting.

Alternating a variable velocity envelope can be inserted to the event/clip.
You can use velocity envelopes to change the speed of a video event over time.
Right-click an event, choose Insert/Remove Envelope, and then choose Velocity from the submenu. The velocity envelope appears on the event as a blue line.
To increase the speed, drag the envelope up. To slow the video down, drag the envelope down.
You can make fine adjustments by holding Ctrl or clicking the right mouse button while dragging the envelope.

Greg Miller · July 29th, 2014, 08:57 AM

Perhaps the DJ did not stretch the song by a constant amount. DJs will often change the speed at the beginning of an incoming track, to match the tempo of an outgoing track. Then as the new track plays, they may gradually adjust back to the "actual" tempo of the cut, or adjust to some other tempo that suits them.

If this is the case, then there is no constant adjustment that you can apply to the entire track that will match the results of the DJ's playback at every point in the song. You may need to break up the song into several sections, and adjust each one to match the DJ's tempo as closely as you can. That would not be fun!

Noa Put · July 29th, 2014, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hewitt

Hi Noa, what is the best way to get these two wav files to you?

I send you a pm

Noa Put · July 29th, 2014, 04:11 PM

That DJ had a few drinks it seems, I had the length exactly the same but he speeds up and slows down the song while it's playing. Probably with a lot of time and patience you can get that right as you need to find the exact moments he speeds up or slows down and adjust accordingly, sorry but I"ll have to pass on this one...

Chris Hewitt · July 29th, 2014, 06:10 PM

Thanks for giving it a try Noa. The DJ was a character, though...alcohol was definitely on the menu.
I will go with the camera audio
Thanks again Noa!

Chris Harding · July 29th, 2014, 07:07 PM

Hi Chris

The way I would look at it (especially if the DJ intentionally changed the speed constantly) is that what happened on the night and you were there to record the wedding so keep it how it was ..otherwise you could mention the weird stuff to the bride and ask her if she wants to keep it as it happened or maybe overdue the audio with the correctly paced song? That way you are covered.

Are you still thinking about a trip down under this year??

Chris

Chris Hewitt · July 30th, 2014, 04:21 AM

Hi Chris,

Yes, I will be in Perth around November or December....no fixed travel date yet as the house here is being redecorated but yes, before Xmas.Looking forward to catching up, Chris.

Paul Mailath · July 30th, 2014, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

That DJ had a few drinks it seems, I had the length exactly the same but he speeds up and slows down the song while it's playing..

I had the same thing a couple of years ago - DJ being a smart-arse. I ended up using the audio from the cameras and explained thing to the client who was cool about it.

Warren Kawamoto · August 10th, 2014, 01:22 AM

I once had a similar problem, my solution was to chop the song at every verse, then re-time each section so it matched the camera audio. Easiest way to do this is by watching the waveform, then stretching or shrinking it to match. Each chopped section will have a very slightly different speed from the section before it, but the difference is so small that you won't hear a pitch difference...it sounds perfect to the ear and you'll have perfectly synched music start to finish. Try it!

July 29th, 2014, 04:28 AM	#1
Chris Hewitt Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Broadstairs,Kent, England Posts: 225	DJ used wrong CD speed HI all, hope you can help.... I shot a First Dance at a wedding the other day and the DJ told me he would use the true playback speed of the song he was going to use but he didn't in the end. In the edit, I prefer to mix and sync the live sound from camera with a CD track of the same song to get a better and fuller sound but obviously, I have a problem here not only in pitch but also length. I have tried stretching the live audio on the timeline (Sony Vegas Pro 12) but it's so hit and miss and I can't get anywhere near it. Any advice would be greatfully received....I also have Sound Forge to work with if that helps.

July 29th, 2014, 04:47 AM	#2
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: DJ used wrong CD speed Adobe audition does a very good job adjusting the length without any apparent artifacts. If you want you can render out the recorded song from your camera (so the song with the wrong speed) and the cd song that needs adjusting and send me those, can't promise anything but could try to see if I can get it right.

July 29th, 2014, 04:55 AM	#3
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: DJ used wrong CD speed Hi Chris Have you tried an audio envelope on the track ...With that you can just do a ctrl drag to make the track slower but then you will have to do the same with the video. Otherwise export just the audio only out and most audio editors will be able to slow it and preserve the length. I use Goldwave which does it fine.

July 29th, 2014, 05:48 AM	#4
Chris Hewitt Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Broadstairs,Kent, England Posts: 225	Re: DJ used wrong CD speed Hi Noa and Chris, thanks for your answers. I have tried adjusting the length of the track to sync up with the CD track on the timeline. Trouble is, I get close in one area and the rest goes out. Noa, that's really kind of you...I have a render going at the moment. Soon as that's finished, I'll put up the two audio files here. Chris, using the audio envelope was my first thought but I didn't think Vegas had an envelope where you could adjust the playback speed like it does for the video track. I thought the audio envelopes were for muting and volume. Must recheck that but the edit PC is tied up at present with the render.

July 29th, 2014, 06:16 AM	#5
Chris Hewitt Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Broadstairs,Kent, England Posts: 225	Re: DJ used wrong CD speed Hi Noa, what is the best way to get these two wav files to you? There is a max upload limit on this site. Chris, had a look at audio envelopes and can't find velocity, only pan, mute and volume. Though, I think you could make the adjustment by grouping the video with the audio but haven't tried that. Thanks guys!

July 29th, 2014, 07:46 AM	#6
Rick Reineke Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New York Posts: 2,039	Re: DJ used wrong CD speed Assuming you Vegas Pro, Time stretching and compressing events is the process of using the same amount of source media to fill a shorter or longer event. While this can be done to both video and audio events, the two cases are fundamentally different. Press Ctrl and drag the edge of the event toward the center of the event to compress (shorten) it or drag the edge out away from the center to stretch (lengthen) it. You can see the results of the time compression or stretching by viewing the properties of the event. Right-click the event and choose Properties from the shortcut menu. Time compressing/stretching an audio event affects the Time stretch/pitch shift settings, while Time compressing/stretching a video event affects the Playback rate setting. Alternating a variable velocity envelope can be inserted to the event/clip. You can use velocity envelopes to change the speed of a video event over time. Right-click an event, choose Insert/Remove Envelope, and then choose Velocity from the submenu. The velocity envelope appears on the event as a blue line. To increase the speed, drag the envelope up. To slow the video down, drag the envelope down. You can make fine adjustments by holding Ctrl or clicking the right mouse button while dragging the envelope.

July 29th, 2014, 08:57 AM	#7
Greg Miller Trustee Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,791	Re: DJ used wrong CD speed Perhaps the DJ did not stretch the song by a constant amount. DJs will often change the speed at the beginning of an incoming track, to match the tempo of an outgoing track. Then as the new track plays, they may gradually adjust back to the "actual" tempo of the cut, or adjust to some other tempo that suits them. If this is the case, then there is no constant adjustment that you can apply to the entire track that will match the results of the DJ's playback at every point in the song. You may need to break up the song into several sections, and adjust each one to match the DJ's tempo as closely as you can. That would not be fun!

July 29th, 2014, 04:11 PM	#9
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: DJ used wrong CD speed That DJ had a few drinks it seems, I had the length exactly the same but he speeds up and slows down the song while it's playing. Probably with a lot of time and patience you can get that right as you need to find the exact moments he speeds up or slows down and adjust accordingly, sorry but I"ll have to pass on this one...

July 29th, 2014, 06:10 PM	#10
Chris Hewitt Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Broadstairs,Kent, England Posts: 225	Re: DJ used wrong CD speed Thanks for giving it a try Noa. The DJ was a character, though...alcohol was definitely on the menu. I will go with the camera audio Thanks again Noa!

July 29th, 2014, 07:07 PM	#11
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: DJ used wrong CD speed Hi Chris The way I would look at it (especially if the DJ intentionally changed the speed constantly) is that what happened on the night and you were there to record the wedding so keep it how it was ..otherwise you could mention the weird stuff to the bride and ask her if she wants to keep it as it happened or maybe overdue the audio with the correctly paced song? That way you are covered. Are you still thinking about a trip down under this year?? Chris

July 30th, 2014, 04:21 AM	#12
Chris Hewitt Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Broadstairs,Kent, England Posts: 225	Re: DJ used wrong CD speed Hi Chris, Yes, I will be in Perth around November or December....no fixed travel date yet as the house here is being redecorated but yes, before Xmas.Looking forward to catching up, Chris.

August 10th, 2014, 01:22 AM	#14
Warren Kawamoto Trustee Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,435	Re: DJ used wrong CD speed I once had a similar problem, my solution was to chop the song at every verse, then re-time each section so it matched the camera audio. Easiest way to do this is by watching the waveform, then stretching or shrinking it to match. Each chopped section will have a very slightly different speed from the section before it, but the difference is so small that you won't hear a pitch difference...it sounds perfect to the ear and you'll have perfectly synched music start to finish. Try it!