Tascam DR-60D vs Zoom H6

[Bob Krieger]

The newly announced Zoom H6, I guess the big brother of the H4... supposedly has 6XLR/TRS inputs (4 onboard and 2 optional add-ons), and add-on mic capsules (X-Y, mid-side, and shotgun) and more. Pricing and availablily TBD

ZOOM

The Tascam DR-60D has no mics, 2 XLR/TRS inputs and an additional stereo mic input, the ability of dual recording and can be attached under a DSLR... Availablity soon at about $350.00US.

Product: DR-60D | TASCAM

I'd love to get my hands on both and see which can actually do what. The Zoom's ability to have 4(6) XLR inputs seems pretty cool! The DR-60D mounting options, great pre-amps seem good, too. What are y'alls thoughts?

[Bob Krieger]

Juiced Link weighs in on the DR-60D vs. its Riggy Assist RA333: Blog : juicedLink, Unique and Trusted Solutions for Audio and Video Production

[Al Gardner]

Wow,
Juicelinked just produced the best ever commercial for Tascam. WTF?
Al

[Bob Krieger]

My thoughts too... except when they mounted the RA333 to the Zoom H4n to provide a additional 2-3 XLR inputs to the Zoom. Makes me want to rethink my options. Unless the H6 is in the same price and capability ballpark as the Tascam... I guess I'll have to wait and see until someone gets their hands on a production H^ and puts it through its paces.

[Bruce Watson]

Interesting. I like how they actually put up a tiny sound comparison, and the conclusion that was drawn was that the DR-60D had somewhat worse SNR. But he didn't talk about what was glaringly obvious -- the DR-60D sounded better! A lot better! (I'm listening on Sony MDR-7506 headphones, which are what I use in the field to make those dialog recordings -- if you're listening on tiny laptop speakers, you may not hear it, but for that matter you probably aren't hearing much of anything that way ;-)

I mean, come on. Anyone really think the built-in sound recording in any camera is going to sound better than a dedicated audio recorder? My bet is that even if you have an SD-302 feeding just about any DSLR, it's going to sound worse than a DR-60D. And that SD-302 costs 4.6 times as much!

We'll know more as more of these things make it out to the field. I'm sure some people will post some real sound comparisons soon. Then we'll see how this little puppy fares in the real world.

[Michael Wisniewski]

Bruce, I agree the, to my ears, DR-60D sounded better. I was listening on external monitors as well as a cheap house stereo system.
I like the Tascam's auto start/stop feature with an adjustable noise threshold, just one button to start and stop recording!

[Jase Tanner]

I have one of the juiced link products. Not high end but they put out good gear/value for the money. But they'd be far better off putting out a true competitor to the Tascam than putting this "review" out.

I will say though that my interest in the DR-60D diminished somewhat given the lack of a smooth adjustable gain complete with audible clicks for each adjustment. (see at about 2:30 of the juiced link video). If there's no way around this it is a poor choice in design.

On the plus side the tascam can record a back up at a somewhat lower gain setting which should minimize the need to adjust levels (and help prevent distortion) while recording but still not good enough imo.

[Al Gardner]

Jase,
********I will say though that my interest in the DR-60D diminished somewhat given the lack of a smooth adjustable gain complete with audible clicks for each adjustment. (see at about 2:30 of the juiced link video). If there's no way around this it is a poor choice in design.
***************

While not a deal breaker I would hope a firmware upgrade would fix that. I realize it's a digital adjustment but it should still be smooth.
Most high end mixers are moving to onboard recording now. I think that's the way to go.

But it also goes without saying that Juicelinked makes good products.

I really think this video hurts them more then helps them though. It didn't make me like their product any less. But it did more to open my eyes to what's good about the Tascam. And I think that should have been Tascams job.
Al

[Allan Black]

Jase, the audible click is heard during the constant tone at 2.41. And you're right, stepped gain pots suck, there's the possibility of audible clicking
during speech from the talent.

Many juicedLinks can be setup to dual record track 2 at a lower gain, to avoid over peaking.

Imo at $350 the DR60D will sell like hot cakes. But quite a few buyers will find it's too big and heavy, and they only use a few features.
Watch the reviews .. and eBay.

Cheers.

[John Nantz]

I think Allan hit the nail on the head when he said it will probably sell like hot cakes. Having been in sales, including selling Teac (parent company of Tascam) reel to reel decks back in the olden days (as our daughter calls them), there will be many customers that get mesmerized by the bells and whistles of a unit and not look much further, and frankly, the DR-60 does look really glitzy.

However, the stepped pots are one thing that would leave me as a user spending much more effort trying to get the audio right without messing something up. It seems that any adjustments would need to be done during a quiet time but the bad part is when it becomes obvious that the gain needs to be adjusted it will be during a period with high sound levels.

Personally, I don't know how to reconcile this. I like to be able to tweak the gain on the fly and often the sound level is a moving target.

The other problem for me with the 60D is the shear size and weight for doing fly-cam work. I know this is a niche area but I use a Glidecam and the compact size and light weight of the JL is very handy. Having said that, being an equipment buff I'm certainly not above adding another piece of gear to my kit as there's a time and a place for everything.

Disclaimer: I'm a JuicedLink CX211 user (no bells and whistles) and I'm in the market for a recorder.

[Allan Black]

Yep John, in a practical sense, a solo shooter won't be screwing with these stepped pots, while he's actually shooting.
After he sets a sound level, his full attention will be with the camera.

That's why I think some shooters will only use a few functions, eg: one mic input, and get used to it. A problem with that is, when they have to use a second or third mic input, and it could happen suddenly on location so without that experience, trouble! Using 3 mics with this unit fitted under the camera is not practical, the cables alone will be a pain.

And it'll be a pain for any sound guy who can't make any level changes during a take.

Hard to believe Tascam didn't take this into account. I think now we'll just have to wait for ALL the reviews, some are out now.
One says 'Notably, the gain adjustments are made via smooth dials on the rear of the unit.'

Cheers.

[Al Gardner]

I don't this is going to be the greatest solution for a solo shooter unless you're on sticks. It would be great to use with a audio person off camera. I like the fact that it records.

But it appears to have flimsy mounting options as noted on B&H customer reviews. This could be a deal breaker.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/929347-REG/tascam_dr_60d_4_ch_track_linear_pcm.html
AL

[Duane Adam]

While I agree 16bit is usually sufficient for dialogue, I don't always just record dialogue. 24/96 edits better and in my opinion, sounds better. Having the ability to record with the Tascam also means you don't have to use the analogue to digital converters in your camera. I like Juicedlink products but it's surprising they would put that video on their website. It does make the Tascam look like the one to go with.
.

[Al Gardner]

Wow,
Zoom doesn't seem to be taking this laying down.


AL

[Bob Krieger]

B&H posted a price of $399.99 for the Zoom H6, but no info or availability is shown. Would love to see how the H6 preamps compare to the H4n

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/967366-REG/Zoom_H6_HANDY_AUDIO_RECORDER.html