Need a cheap omnidirectional mic at DVinfo.net

Jon French · September 20th, 2005, 11:12 PM

Ok I shoot wedding videos and at the curent moment for the ceremony I use a wireless lav running through a beachtak 4 on my main camera and i just use the onboard mic on my backup. I load both tapes on my computer and take the audio from the backup and mix it with the video from my main cam to get the finished sound. I'm sick of doing all that work when I can just put another mic on my main camera and run both of them for the ceremony. I'm just looking at something cheap, like around $200. Right now the smg-2x is looking like what ill pick up. any sugestions for other mics?

Jon

also im shooting with vx2100's

Dave Largent · September 21st, 2005, 12:59 AM

I don't think the smg-2x is an omni mic? Is it an
omni that you are looking for?

Jay Massengill · September 21st, 2005, 07:36 AM

The SGM-2x can be an omni mic with the short tube in place. It's supposed to be more directional when using the long tube. I'd use the short tube if I was doing indoor ambient recording in a church if that were my only choices.
I'd rather use an AudioTechnica ATM-10a omni or ATM-31a cardioid though.
The Azden does come with a shoe-mount shock absorber, but it's easy enough to get the same for any pencil-style mic. The AT's would also make better hand-held mics if you ever do hand-held reception interviews/greetings. They have less handling noise than the Azden.
Even with a shockmount, any of these mics will sound better if you put them on a mic stand away from the camera. If you do that, then you can also look at the Rode NT3, which would have lower self-noise and greater sensitivity, but wouldn't be for camera mounting or hand-held use.

Jon French · September 21st, 2005, 08:10 AM

the atm-10a looks good. So you think it will do a decent job picking up ambient noises in a church if im say, around 25-35 feet away from the front

Jay Massengill · September 21st, 2005, 08:43 AM

I can promise it will pick up ALL the ambient sound in a church, including the camera and your hands on the camera if you don't mount it on a separate stand. The question is whether you WANT all that ambient sound of if you want less (cardioid) or even less (hypercardioid). At those distances ANY mic will be an ambient mic, the key is how wide open do you want it to be for a given church, sound system, the congregation and your location.
The omni has some strengths too for strictly ambient use, but I'd probably opt for a cardioid to handle a wider range of placements and activities.
The choice is yours, I've seen the ATM-10a for $99 and the ATM-31a for $129. A low-end shockmount would be about $25. A FatCat windscreen would be about $60 if you ever do an outdoor wedding.

Jon French · September 21st, 2005, 09:30 AM

well the way you say it then I will probably put it on a stand about 5-10 feet from me. Is it going to pick up every sound just like the stock mic on my sonys or is it going to pick up even more?

Jon French · September 21st, 2005, 09:44 AM

what about the at PRO 37? I would like to get this before my next wedding(friday) and a local music store has that one and the atm-10a and the Shure PG81-XLR

Jay Massengill · September 21st, 2005, 09:52 AM

The ATM-10a will be similar to the stock mic in that it will pick up sound from all directions, but many Sony built-in mics are hyper-sensitive. The ATM condenser mics are on the low-end of moderately sensitive mics. This mic will be mono of course versus stereo for the stock mic, so you'll need to mix it slightly differently than you did from your backup camera. At least you won't have to worry about sync. And if you don't like it, you're still running your backup camera too.
The AT's will sound more full-bodied and should be pleasing, at least as far as a battery-powered ambient mic can be without spending a lot of money on an EarthWorks or other specialty mic.

Jay Massengill · September 21st, 2005, 10:03 AM

The Pro37 requires phantom power and it has high self-noise too. It's mainly for drum overhead micing.
The PG-81 is also higher in self-noise and it's lower in sensitivity than the ATM's.
I think the ATM's will be just about right.

Jay Massengill · September 21st, 2005, 10:09 AM

One other thing, if you set your BeachTek to STEREO, you'll have two separate tracks (Lav/Ambient) to work with in editing. Re-centering each and adjusting their levels as needed.
If you set the BeachTek to mono, the two tracks will be mixed in the camera. This means you can't change the mix in post, which is more convenient if you did it right the first time. But dangerous if you make a mistake live that can't be undone later.

Jon French · September 21st, 2005, 11:12 AM

yes i had planned to set it to stereo so it would be easier to edit each line and just mix them when finished. Does my beachtak have phantom built in? like if i set it to mic instead of line will that give me phantom power?

Steve House · September 21st, 2005, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon french

yes i had planned to set it to stereo so it would be easier to edit each line and just mix them when finished. Does my beachtak have phantom built in? like if i set it to mic instead of line will that give me phantom power?

Which Beach do you have? The DXA-6 and -8 have phantom but the others don't.

Jon French · September 21st, 2005, 01:12 PM

i have the 4, how much is a 6 or a phantom power supply?

Dave Largent · September 21st, 2005, 03:48 PM

I have a nice Denecke phantom powering unit that
costed about $125.

September 20th, 2005, 11:12 PM	#1
Jon French Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: fairfield, ohio Posts: 63	Need a cheap omnidirectional mic Ok I shoot wedding videos and at the curent moment for the ceremony I use a wireless lav running through a beachtak 4 on my main camera and i just use the onboard mic on my backup. I load both tapes on my computer and take the audio from the backup and mix it with the video from my main cam to get the finished sound. I'm sick of doing all that work when I can just put another mic on my main camera and run both of them for the ceremony. I'm just looking at something cheap, like around $200. Right now the smg-2x is looking like what ill pick up. any sugestions for other mics? Jon also im shooting with vx2100's

September 21st, 2005, 12:59 AM	#2
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	I don't think the smg-2x is an omni mic? Is it an omni that you are looking for?

September 21st, 2005, 07:36 AM	#3
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	The SGM-2x can be an omni mic with the short tube in place. It's supposed to be more directional when using the long tube. I'd use the short tube if I was doing indoor ambient recording in a church if that were my only choices. I'd rather use an AudioTechnica ATM-10a omni or ATM-31a cardioid though. The Azden does come with a shoe-mount shock absorber, but it's easy enough to get the same for any pencil-style mic. The AT's would also make better hand-held mics if you ever do hand-held reception interviews/greetings. They have less handling noise than the Azden. Even with a shockmount, any of these mics will sound better if you put them on a mic stand away from the camera. If you do that, then you can also look at the Rode NT3, which would have lower self-noise and greater sensitivity, but wouldn't be for camera mounting or hand-held use.

September 21st, 2005, 08:10 AM	#4
Jon French Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: fairfield, ohio Posts: 63	the atm-10a looks good. So you think it will do a decent job picking up ambient noises in a church if im say, around 25-35 feet away from the front

September 21st, 2005, 08:43 AM	#5
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	I can promise it will pick up ALL the ambient sound in a church, including the camera and your hands on the camera if you don't mount it on a separate stand. The question is whether you WANT all that ambient sound of if you want less (cardioid) or even less (hypercardioid). At those distances ANY mic will be an ambient mic, the key is how wide open do you want it to be for a given church, sound system, the congregation and your location. The omni has some strengths too for strictly ambient use, but I'd probably opt for a cardioid to handle a wider range of placements and activities. The choice is yours, I've seen the ATM-10a for $99 and the ATM-31a for $129. A low-end shockmount would be about $25. A FatCat windscreen would be about $60 if you ever do an outdoor wedding.

September 21st, 2005, 09:30 AM	#6
Jon French Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: fairfield, ohio Posts: 63	well the way you say it then I will probably put it on a stand about 5-10 feet from me. Is it going to pick up every sound just like the stock mic on my sonys or is it going to pick up even more?

September 21st, 2005, 09:44 AM	#7
Jon French Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: fairfield, ohio Posts: 63	what about the at PRO 37? I would like to get this before my next wedding(friday) and a local music store has that one and the atm-10a and the Shure PG81-XLR

September 21st, 2005, 09:52 AM	#8
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	The ATM-10a will be similar to the stock mic in that it will pick up sound from all directions, but many Sony built-in mics are hyper-sensitive. The ATM condenser mics are on the low-end of moderately sensitive mics. This mic will be mono of course versus stereo for the stock mic, so you'll need to mix it slightly differently than you did from your backup camera. At least you won't have to worry about sync. And if you don't like it, you're still running your backup camera too. The AT's will sound more full-bodied and should be pleasing, at least as far as a battery-powered ambient mic can be without spending a lot of money on an EarthWorks or other specialty mic.

September 21st, 2005, 10:03 AM	#9
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	The Pro37 requires phantom power and it has high self-noise too. It's mainly for drum overhead micing. The PG-81 is also higher in self-noise and it's lower in sensitivity than the ATM's. I think the ATM's will be just about right.

September 21st, 2005, 10:09 AM	#10
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	One other thing, if you set your BeachTek to STEREO, you'll have two separate tracks (Lav/Ambient) to work with in editing. Re-centering each and adjusting their levels as needed. If you set the BeachTek to mono, the two tracks will be mixed in the camera. This means you can't change the mix in post, which is more convenient if you did it right the first time. But dangerous if you make a mistake live that can't be undone later.

September 21st, 2005, 11:12 AM	#11
Jon French Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: fairfield, ohio Posts: 63	yes i had planned to set it to stereo so it would be easier to edit each line and just mix them when finished. Does my beachtak have phantom built in? like if i set it to mic instead of line will that give me phantom power?

September 21st, 2005, 01:12 PM	#13
Jon French Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: fairfield, ohio Posts: 63	i have the 4, how much is a 6 or a phantom power supply?

September 21st, 2005, 03:48 PM	#14
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	I have a nice Denecke phantom powering unit that costed about $125.