VX2100 external mic -- XLR or not at DVinfo.net

Tom Tomkowiak · September 20th, 2005, 06:48 PM

Altho this is my post #1, I've been lurking here for weeks, finding answers to just about every question I've had, except this one:

I'm now in the market for a shotgun mike for my VX2100. I don't have any "working" knowledge of XLR technology, but I've read enough on the subject to be dangerous (to myself.)

I gather the primary benefit of XLR is for cable runs longer than a few feet. But, a camera-mounted (non-XLR) mike has about the same length of unbalanced wire between the mike and the camera as there would be between an XLR adaptor (required for a VX2K) and the VX2100's mini-plugin.

Seems to me, hiss, humm, or general audio quality from a camera-mounted mike depends more on the quality of the mike than on whether or not it's an XLR mike.

If I was using additional corded or wireless mikes, I could definitely understand the benefit of investing in XLR equipment. But, that won't happen any time soon. So, I don't see the benefit of spending several hundred dollars to go the XLR route for a lone camera-mounted mike.

Go ahead, make your day. Beat up on the newbie. Tell me I'm wrong, but tell me why.

Mike Rehmus · September 20th, 2005, 06:54 PM

The problem is that the quality microphones are made with XLR connections. There may be good microphones that are made with unbalanced connections but I doubt it. Why burden a good design with a potentially bad connection?

David Ennis · September 20th, 2005, 09:55 PM

Tom, your logic is correct. You don't need XLR cable for the short run between a camera mounted mic and the cam input.

And what Mike says is true, but some good quality XLR mics will operate with battery power, and those you can use with a $10 XLR to stereo mini adaptor. The AT897 and Sennheiser ME66 are examples. Of those two the Sennheiser is much more sensitive, but there seems to be general agreement that the 897 has a sweeter sound. Using a $40 adaptor with an in line impedance matching transformer may help the signal strength dfrom the AT897, but I haven't tried that myself.

The new Rode VideoMic, which has been very well received, is made with a stereo mini plug. A respected contributer here who owns both the Rode and the AT897 believes that the Rode sounds just as good. The Rode is also more sensitive.

Tom Tomkowiak · September 21st, 2005, 10:42 AM

Thanks both for your input. I've been mostly a video guy, but lately I've also gotten more involved with the audio. Obviously I'm highly resistant to spending more bucks than absolutely necessary.

However, I'm accepting the fact that eventually I'll get to the point where I'll need a good mike or multi-mike setup, and it'll probably happen sooner rather than later. So, to dip my toe in the water, for now I'll start with an XLR mike and just get a mini-plug adaptor. That way, I can continue to slowly ease totally into the balanced world w/o too much of a shock to the budget.

The mics you mentioned are also the ones that most frequently showed up when I searched for mike-buying Q&A's. So, that seems like a good starting point.

Brooks Bennett · September 27th, 2005, 07:37 AM

I was in the same situation for a while an opted for the Sennheiser MKE300. It worked pretty darn well and mounted easily to my VX2000...

Miniplug, battery powered, mounts on the hotshoe - just what I needed.

The MKE300 is always on eBay and of course and of the big video stores will have it.

Bill Grant · September 29th, 2005, 06:04 PM

I just got the Rode Videomic, and it does sound pretty nice, but when I plug it into the aux jack on my beachtek I get no audio. Through the camera it works great but not in the beachtek. Do I need an XLR adapter for it, or am I missing something...? thanks...

Bill

Jeff Toogood · September 30th, 2005, 06:54 AM

For what's it worth, I experience the same thing when I plug my Videomic into my beachtek aux jack.
No Audio???
Anyone have any idea why?

Steve House · September 30th, 2005, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Toogood

For what's it worth, I experience the same thing when I plug my Videomic into my beachtek aux jack.
No Audio???
Anyone have any idea why?

The Beachtek adapter's Aux input feeds to the right channel only. Are you sure you're monitoring the correct channel in the camera?

Bill Grant · September 30th, 2005, 07:48 AM

I have switched between stereo and mono on the beachtek, and I am using headphones to monitor the audio. I am not sure how else to do it. I have a Canon GL1 by the way.
thanks
Bill

Jeff Toogood · September 30th, 2005, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve House

The Beachtek adapter's Aux input feeds to the right channel only. Are you sure you're monitoring the correct channel in the camera?

Yes, and I get nothing. Tried with the beachtek hooked up to both my TRV900 & VX2000
Tried the beachtek on Mono & Stereo, doesn't matter.
The jack works, I can plug in my wireless and it works fine.

Weird.

Steve House · September 30th, 2005, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Toogood

Yes, and I get nothing. Tried with the beachtek hooked up to both my TRV900 & VX2000
Tried the beachtek on Mono & Stereo, doesn't matter.
The jack works, I can plug in my wireless and it works fine.

Weird.

Couldn't find it on the Beach website but since the aux input is intended for the output of a wireless receiver could it be that it is expecting a higher level signal than the Rode puts out, ie, the level of a dynamic mic rather than that of a condenser mic?

Bill Grant · September 30th, 2005, 10:24 AM

well, for what it's worth Rode doesn't know why either. The tech said to ask Canon and Beachtek. Yeah I know how that circle works. around and around and around nobody's fault but mine... I got a good answer at pana3ccduser, they say use a stereo to mono adapter... I'll try it and let you know...

Bill

David Ennis · September 30th, 2005, 11:05 AM

Harry Kaufmann at Beachtek has said to me that he wonders why people with questions about Beachtek devices don't ask Beachtek. I think the answer must be that we'd rather figure it out.

Harry@beachtek.com

He WILL know (or get) the answer and he has ALWAYS been very responsive.

That being said... :>) MY guess is that because of the spacing of its contacts the beach is trying to take its signal from between the tip and the ring, thinking that it's contacting the tip and the sleeve of a mono plug. What it's getting is no signal, because the Rode is putting the same voltage on the tip and the ring.

So yeah, a stereo to mono adaptor should do it.

Steve House · September 30th, 2005, 03:53 PM

That makes perfect sense, Fred. Since the aux input on the Beach is expecting a mono signal, they probably used a mono jack while the Rode uses a stereo plug and the geometry of the contacts in each is just off enough so it doesn't connect. Good thing to file away in the "things to check while troubleshooting" files in the back of one's mind.

Bill Grant · September 30th, 2005, 06:50 PM

that worked by the way... radio shack to the rescue. 3.99...

Appreciate the help.

Bill

September 20th, 2005, 06:54 PM	#2
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	The problem is that the quality microphones are made with XLR connections. There may be good microphones that are made with unbalanced connections but I doubt it. Why burden a good design with a potentially bad connection? __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

September 20th, 2005, 09:55 PM	#3
David Ennis Fred Retread Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hartford, CT Posts: 1,227	Tom, your logic is correct. You don't need XLR cable for the short run between a camera mounted mic and the cam input. And what Mike says is true, but some good quality XLR mics will operate with battery power, and those you can use with a $10 XLR to stereo mini adaptor. The AT897 and Sennheiser ME66 are examples. Of those two the Sennheiser is much more sensitive, but there seems to be general agreement that the 897 has a sweeter sound. Using a $40 adaptor with an in line impedance matching transformer may help the signal strength dfrom the AT897, but I haven't tried that myself. The new Rode VideoMic, which has been very well received, is made with a stereo mini plug. A respected contributer here who owns both the Rode and the AT897 believes that the Rode sounds just as good. The Rode is also more sensitive. __________________ "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge "My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me

September 29th, 2005, 06:04 PM	#6
Bill Grant Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Columbia,SC Posts: 806	ok well here's a question I just got the Rode Videomic, and it does sound pretty nice, but when I plug it into the aux jack on my beachtek I get no audio. Through the camera it works great but not in the beachtek. Do I need an XLR adapter for it, or am I missing something...? thanks... Bill

September 30th, 2005, 06:54 AM	#7
Jeff Toogood Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: St.Thomas, Ontario, CANADA Posts: 428	For what's it worth, I experience the same thing when I plug my Videomic into my beachtek aux jack. No Audio??? Anyone have any idea why? __________________ Toogood Studios

September 30th, 2005, 11:05 AM	#13
David Ennis Fred Retread Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hartford, CT Posts: 1,227	Harry Kaufmann at Beachtek has said to me that he wonders why people with questions about Beachtek devices don't ask Beachtek. I think the answer must be that we'd rather figure it out. Harry@beachtek.com He WILL know (or get) the answer and he has ALWAYS been very responsive. That being said... :>) MY guess is that because of the spacing of its contacts the beach is trying to take its signal from between the tip and the ring, thinking that it's contacting the tip and the sleeve of a mono plug. What it's getting is no signal, because the Rode is putting the same voltage on the tip and the ring. So yeah, a stereo to mono adaptor should do it. __________________ "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge "My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me

September 20th, 2005, 06:48 PM	#1
Tom Tomkowiak Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: On the NC Crystal Coast Posts: 203	VX2100 external mic -- XLR or not Altho this is my post #1, I've been lurking here for weeks, finding answers to just about every question I've had, except this one: I'm now in the market for a shotgun mike for my VX2100. I don't have any "working" knowledge of XLR technology, but I've read enough on the subject to be dangerous (to myself.) I gather the primary benefit of XLR is for cable runs longer than a few feet. But, a camera-mounted (non-XLR) mike has about the same length of unbalanced wire between the mike and the camera as there would be between an XLR adaptor (required for a VX2K) and the VX2100's mini-plugin. Seems to me, hiss, humm, or general audio quality from a camera-mounted mike depends more on the quality of the mike than on whether or not it's an XLR mike. If I was using additional corded or wireless mikes, I could definitely understand the benefit of investing in XLR equipment. But, that won't happen any time soon. So, I don't see the benefit of spending several hundred dollars to go the XLR route for a lone camera-mounted mike. Go ahead, make your day. Beat up on the newbie. Tell me I'm wrong, but tell me why.

September 21st, 2005, 10:42 AM	#4
Tom Tomkowiak Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: On the NC Crystal Coast Posts: 203	Thanks both for your input. I've been mostly a video guy, but lately I've also gotten more involved with the audio. Obviously I'm highly resistant to spending more bucks than absolutely necessary. However, I'm accepting the fact that eventually I'll get to the point where I'll need a good mike or multi-mike setup, and it'll probably happen sooner rather than later. So, to dip my toe in the water, for now I'll start with an XLR mike and just get a mini-plug adaptor. That way, I can continue to slowly ease totally into the balanced world w/o too much of a shock to the budget. The mics you mentioned are also the ones that most frequently showed up when I searched for mike-buying Q&A's. So, that seems like a good starting point.

September 27th, 2005, 07:37 AM	#5
Brooks Bennett Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 28	I was in the same situation for a while an opted for the Sennheiser MKE300. It worked pretty darn well and mounted easily to my VX2000... Miniplug, battery powered, mounts on the hotshoe - just what I needed. The MKE300 is always on eBay and of course and of the big video stores will have it.

September 30th, 2005, 07:48 AM	#9
Bill Grant Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Columbia,SC Posts: 806	I have switched between stereo and mono on the beachtek, and I am using headphones to monitor the audio. I am not sure how else to do it. I have a Canon GL1 by the way. thanks Bill

September 30th, 2005, 10:24 AM	#12
Bill Grant Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Columbia,SC Posts: 806	well, for what it's worth Rode doesn't know why either. The tech said to ask Canon and Beachtek. Yeah I know how that circle works. around and around and around nobody's fault but mine... I got a good answer at pana3ccduser, they say use a stereo to mono adapter... I'll try it and let you know... Bill

September 30th, 2005, 03:53 PM	#14
Steve House Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,742	That makes perfect sense, Fred. Since the aux input on the Beach is expecting a mono signal, they probably used a mono jack while the Rode uses a stereo plug and the geometry of the contacts in each is just off enough so it doesn't connect. Good thing to file away in the "things to check while troubleshooting" files in the back of one's mind.

September 30th, 2005, 06:50 PM	#15
Bill Grant Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Columbia,SC Posts: 806	that worked by the way... radio shack to the rescue. 3.99... Appreciate the help. Bill