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December 26th, 2012, 04:04 PM | #1 |
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Shure mixer connected to Canon HV 30 camcorder
Hello everyone.
Now that I've got somewhat of a handle on the input side of things between my mic (AT 822stereo) via the right cables, which are on their way, I'd like to touch on the output side of things. So if you'll indulge me... First, I am also well into Jay Rose's audio book, and there is lots of great information there that, in addition to here, will help out the quality and understanding of my own audio practices. My intention is to find the best solution to hook up the Shure FP 33 mixer to a Canon Hv30 camcorder for recording audio. If you have any questions for me I can respond to them as best as I can as we go along. For connections, I obviously won't be connecting the L and R outs from mixer to the camera, since the camera takes a 1/8" mini pin connector (three pole I think). Unless you think there is a adaptor and that's the way to go. The mixer also has a "Tape Out" as well, also mini pin. And then there are the headphone female out of which there is a 1/8 mini and 1/4" TRS. So how would you guys go from the mixer to the camcorder? I don't believe the HV30 has an auto gain switch, but I know that you can set the levels for sound manually and lock them, if that's any help. There is also a menu item you can set for "Attenuation on/off", but not sure which to set that using the set-up above. If you guys recommend either cabling out from the headphone monitor on mixer or the tape out on the mixer, both 1/8" mini, would I use a stereo plug/cable from mixer to stereo plug input on the camera? Regardless of how I cable this thing, would I use the mixer tone generator to set the level on the camcorder? On this I'm guessing yes, so that everything is at the same level. I leave it here. If you have any insights or have used an HV30 connected in some fashion, please let me know your thoughts. And if you have any questions I can answer. On a final note, When I've work on semi pro-pro camera set ups, running the xlrs from mixer to the xlrs into the camera were pretty straight forward. The question is how the HV30 will play with a professional piece of audio equipment like a mixer. Thanks. Jonathan |
December 26th, 2012, 04:54 PM | #2 | ||||||
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Re: Shure mixer connected to Canon HV 30 camcorder
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You would need a simple cable with a 3.5mm TRS ("stereo") connector at each end. RadioShack sells cables like these in several colors(!) For example: Catalog #: 42-961 for $4 NOTE: Unless it is already done to your unit, the FP33 must be modified internally to output MIC-LEVEL to that connector. The instructions to do this are in the User Guide at the top of page 9. You MUST make this signal mic-level or it will NOT work with your HV30. THIS IS MANDATORY, not an option. If you don't/can't do this, then you must use the XLR outputs (with the appropriate adapter cable) set to mic-level. Quote:
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December 26th, 2012, 05:44 PM | #3 |
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Re: Shure mixer connected to Canon HV 30 camcorder
I've got the HV20 and HV40. As well as the on board mic, there's only an external stereo mic input on this series of cams, no line input for any mixers.
As Richard said, switch the Shures output to mic, and plug its 'tape out' to your HV30 external mic in. Use as short a cable as you can. You can use its tone oscillator to match your HV30s input level. There's more about this in the HV30 manual and in general, in your Jay Rose book. For voice recording, use the Shures limiter to keep the levels in check and monitor with headphones from the HV30, there should be enough level. Practise practise Johnathon :) Never switch the 48V phantom power 'on' until you connect all your 48V mics to the mixer. Do the reverse when you're finished your session. Cheers.
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December 26th, 2012, 05:53 PM | #4 |
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Re: Shure mixer connected to Canon HV 30 camcorder
Richard. Thanks for all that!
So far it seems that the proper way to go is from the tape out to the mic in, if the mixer is set up to handle mic level per your note. I'll check that out. How about this scenerio: I actually have a short cable/adapter that has a female xlr at one end, and the stereo mini pin at the other. Could I plug this into either the left or right out on the mixer (set tor mic level), connect to the HV30? My goal is to get a left and right soundtrack from the camcorder. And is this nuts? How about a custom adapter: two female xlr (left and right on mixer) to mini pin stereo other end. Or would I be able to get left and right sound out from cmcorder using the single xlr from either L or R on mixer to camera? And lastly, I'm assuming that if I wanted to do something like record to HD on a laptop, the same rules apply? Always appreciate your help. Best to you. Jonathan |
December 26th, 2012, 06:27 PM | #5 | |||||
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Re: Shure mixer connected to Canon HV 30 camcorder
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And this is NOT the same as a special XLR cable/adapter made for a stereo microphone. Quote:
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December 26th, 2012, 08:50 PM | #6 |
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Re: Shure mixer connected to Canon HV 30 camcorder
Once had to hook up an HV30 to the audio output of an ac-powered mixer. Found that when the HV30 was used with the canon ac adapter, I got a ground loop (hum). Didn't do this when run on battery power, however. Might apply in your situation...
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December 26th, 2012, 09:06 PM | #7 |
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Re: Shure mixer connected to Canon HV 30 camcorder
Yes lots of smaller (consumer) camcorders and MOST laptop computers are NOTORIOUS for their ground loop (and power supply horrible noise) when used with their AC "brick" adapters.
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December 26th, 2012, 10:25 PM | #8 |
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Re: Shure mixer connected to Canon HV 30 camcorder
The tape out of the FP33 is line level. Switching the XLR inputs or outputs to mic level doesn't change that. Your camera is mic level so you have an impedance mis-match. The line level will have to be padded.
A Juicedlink box is the better choice over the FP33 in this case. |
December 26th, 2012, 10:27 PM | #9 | |
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Re: Shure mixer connected to Canon HV 30 camcorder
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Levels have nothing to do with impedance. The FP33 has sufficiently low output impedance that there is no issue here. |
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December 26th, 2012, 10:46 PM | #10 |
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Re: Shure mixer connected to Canon HV 30 camcorder
Awesome. Didn't know that. Hope it's useful someday. Thanks.
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December 27th, 2012, 10:32 AM | #11 |
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Re: Shure mixer connected to Canon HV 30 camcorder
Alan, I must have been type my reply whn yours came in. The Jay Rose book is really helpfull. I still reading and re-reading the first few chapters that deals with some math stuff, plus I'm a slow leaarner.
I will get the shortest cable possible for between the mixer and camera, since both will be near me when I shoot. And yes, practice, practice, practice. Read. Read. Read. I'm using my slow time, between Christmas and Memorial Day, to work through all this ;-} And Richard, thanks again. Tape out to camera is the way to go then. Can I ask a you, is it just standard that the mic input on the HV30 or most camcorders that the input is un-balanced. I'm looking at page 103 in the Canon manual in the spec for Mic "3.5mm stereo minijack, -57dBV (with 600 ohm microphone) 5 kohms or more". I could be so new to this that the answer is right there and I just don't know it. Camera manuals sure don't help a whole lot, it seems. And about the laptop situation, once again I forgot what was sitting right in front of me, my M-Audio Fastrack Pro interface. I think for my VO only work, my practices will be to use that. I will check out page 9 of the FP33 manual. Not certain if that is a dip switch setting or if it involves soldiering something. But I'll look into that today. As far as using AC power, I use that exclusively if I know I'm going to conduct a stationary interview. I have not had any problem (i don't think, but then again, want to go from aceptable audo to a least good audio). Is the noise issue something that occurs mostly when a camcorder is connected to mixer? And I'm assuming this is not an issue with prosumer units that have balanced input (xlr) Or just use the camera in battery mode. Thanks Battle. Thanks fellas. Jonathan |
December 27th, 2012, 11:08 AM | #12 |
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Re: Shure mixer connected to Canon HV 30 camcorder
Quote: Is the noise issue something that occurs mostly when a camcorder is connected to mixer? And I'm assuming this is not an issue with prosumer units that have balanced input (xlr) Or just use the camera in battery mode. Thanks Battle.
A ground loop occurs when there is a voltage difference between two grounds, as I understand it -- Richard will probably have a better explanation --- but there's a small voltage signal existing between the ground side of your camera's ac adapter and the ground side of your audio input's ac power supply that causes the hum. If you eliminate one or the other ac source, the hum goes away. We had to run the camera on battery to eliminate the problem. (Aside) Personal to Richard C, are you the same Richard Crowley I went to college with in Memphis in the 60's by any chance? We were both into stills and 16mm film then... |
December 27th, 2012, 11:19 AM | #13 | ||||
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Re: Shure mixer connected to Canon HV 30 camcorder
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December 27th, 2012, 11:29 AM | #14 |
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Re: Shure mixer connected to Canon HV 30 camcorder
Nope. I was in college in the 60's, but I've never been to Tennessee. However I have ancestors (and likely extended relatives) in Tennessee and Texas, so they could be related.
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December 27th, 2012, 11:37 AM | #15 |
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Re: Shure mixer connected to Canon HV 30 camcorder
"I believe as long as you are operating the mixer on internal batteries, you won't run into the noise problem. The noise comes from ground loops when connected to other power-mains powered equipment.
+1 Additionally, ground-loops can usually be avoided by having the interconnected audio/video gear plugged into the same circuit. Field production audio gear draws very little power so tripping a breaker should not be problem... Obviously, lights should be distributed on separate circuits accordingly. |
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