Using sound to convey lack of attention at DVinfo.net

Anmol Mishra · July 22nd, 2012, 08:47 PM

Here is the situation. An actor is not paying attention to the person talking in front of them. But phasing out and remembering a conversation that occurred earlier.
How do I convey this on the soundtrack ?
I tried to just overlay the audio from other conversation - but it has a different ambience and sounds strange..

Bill Davis · July 22nd, 2012, 09:15 PM

Lots of possibilities.

A typical approach might be to both lower the volume and diminish the high frequencies on the primary audio track (low pass filter set perhaps to 800 or 1000k or to taste) Then bring up the audio you want the audience to hear set to a normal volume but with an EQ at the other end of the spectrum (high pass filter set to maybe 500khz up.)

Adding reverb to one or the other might further help the audience feel that one track is associated with one sense while the other is separate.

But without hearing what you're dealing with and seeing what the audience sees as well as hears, these are just guessing games since the only way to get something like this right is to both see and hear it while making the adjustments.

Good luck.

Battle Vaughan · July 22nd, 2012, 09:51 PM

I've seen this, there always seems to be a long cross-fade from the one conversation to the other, in which you hear some of both voices for a longer time than just a simple crossfade, which leads the audience to understand what's happening.

Also seeing the present speaker's mouth moving while the other speaker's voice is saying totally different words conveys that the party is not listening to the speaker....the difference in ambience probably is a plus....usually the voice at the end, snaps back to the present speaker suddenly as he or she says something really important or asks the listener a question and he snaps back to reality.

Steve House · July 23rd, 2012, 04:50 AM

Consider that the subject is "hearing" a memory of a different place and a different time. The ambiance of that remembered plsce is going to be different from the current place as well. Not only is the difference not a negative, it helps move the story forward by telling the audience what is remembered and what is in the here and now.

Anmol Mishra · July 23rd, 2012, 04:57 AM

I just realized that its easier to reshoot the scene with the changeover in mind.

Maybe I could pan to the non-attentive actor as the other one is speaking and then pan back.
This way I could fade in the sound when the non-attentive actor comes into the pan and fade out when it pans back to the other one.

I could also use reverb and the different ambience on the external sound.

Garrett Low · July 23rd, 2012, 10:22 AM

Rather than a pan back and forth I would probably opt to do a slow push into the person that's speaking, framed so that it draws attention to their moving lips, as you push in slowing fade their sound and start to kick in a little more reverb. Then I'd cut to the person remembering mid slow push matching face size, framed to draw focus to their eyes, bringing up the sound for their memory which has a different room sound altogether. Both of these shots with pretty shallow DOF, maybe about 1 foot so that all of their facial features are in focus but anything behind them is thrown out of focus.

Then I'd use a quick cut back to the person speaking regular sound, medium closeup deep DOF when the person remembering snaps back to present day.

You could also do it with lighting. Slowly dim the lighting of the background of the person speaking as their sound fades and changes. Cut to the person remembering with matched lighting high lighting them with a darker background as they hear the memory voice. Bring lighting back to original to signify that they have returned to present.

There are several ways to shoot this but for it to be effective it will be a combination of camera work, sound, lighting, and art direction.

Anmol Mishra · July 23rd, 2012, 11:16 PM

Nice description Garrett.

July 22nd, 2012, 08:47 PM	#1
Anmol Mishra Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 401	Using sound to convey lack of attention Here is the situation. An actor is not paying attention to the person talking in front of them. But phasing out and remembering a conversation that occurred earlier. How do I convey this on the soundtrack ? I tried to just overlay the audio from other conversation - but it has a different ambience and sounds strange.. __________________ mishra.tv Productions A Sydney-based group for dance movement-based video and film productions.

July 22nd, 2012, 09:15 PM	#2
Bill Davis Trustee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260 Posts: 1,538	Re: Using sound to convey lack of attention Lots of possibilities. A typical approach might be to both lower the volume and diminish the high frequencies on the primary audio track (low pass filter set perhaps to 800 or 1000k or to taste) Then bring up the audio you want the audience to hear set to a normal volume but with an EQ at the other end of the spectrum (high pass filter set to maybe 500khz up.) Adding reverb to one or the other might further help the audience feel that one track is associated with one sense while the other is separate. But without hearing what you're dealing with and seeing what the audience sees as well as hears, these are just guessing games since the only way to get something like this right is to both see and hear it while making the adjustments. Good luck. __________________ Classroom editing instructor? Check out www.starteditingnow.com Turnkey editor training content including licensed training footage for classroom use.

July 22nd, 2012, 09:51 PM	#3
Battle Vaughan Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami, FL USA Posts: 1,505	Re: Using sound to convey lack of attention I've seen this, there always seems to be a long cross-fade from the one conversation to the other, in which you hear some of both voices for a longer time than just a simple crossfade, which leads the audience to understand what's happening. Also seeing the present speaker's mouth moving while the other speaker's voice is saying totally different words conveys that the party is not listening to the speaker....the difference in ambience probably is a plus....usually the voice at the end, snaps back to the present speaker suddenly as he or she says something really important or asks the listener a question and he snaps back to reality.

July 23rd, 2012, 04:50 AM	#4
Steve House Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,742	Re: Using sound to convey lack of attention Consider that the subject is "hearing" a memory of a different place and a different time. The ambiance of that remembered plsce is going to be different from the current place as well. Not only is the difference not a negative, it helps move the story forward by telling the audience what is remembered and what is in the here and now. __________________ Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!

July 23rd, 2012, 04:57 AM	#5
Anmol Mishra Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 401	Re: Using sound to convey lack of attention I just realized that its easier to reshoot the scene with the changeover in mind. Maybe I could pan to the non-attentive actor as the other one is speaking and then pan back. This way I could fade in the sound when the non-attentive actor comes into the pan and fade out when it pans back to the other one. I could also use reverb and the different ambience on the external sound. __________________ mishra.tv Productions A Sydney-based group for dance movement-based video and film productions.

July 23rd, 2012, 10:22 AM	#6
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	Re: Using sound to convey lack of attention Rather than a pan back and forth I would probably opt to do a slow push into the person that's speaking, framed so that it draws attention to their moving lips, as you push in slowing fade their sound and start to kick in a little more reverb. Then I'd cut to the person remembering mid slow push matching face size, framed to draw focus to their eyes, bringing up the sound for their memory which has a different room sound altogether. Both of these shots with pretty shallow DOF, maybe about 1 foot so that all of their facial features are in focus but anything behind them is thrown out of focus. Then I'd use a quick cut back to the person speaking regular sound, medium closeup deep DOF when the person remembering snaps back to present day. You could also do it with lighting. Slowly dim the lighting of the background of the person speaking as their sound fades and changes. Cut to the person remembering with matched lighting high lighting them with a darker background as they hear the memory voice. Bring lighting back to original to signify that they have returned to present. There are several ways to shoot this but for it to be effective it will be a combination of camera work, sound, lighting, and art direction. __________________ Garrett Low www.GLowMediaProductions.com

July 23rd, 2012, 11:16 PM	#7
Anmol Mishra Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 401	Re: Using sound to convey lack of attention Nice description Garrett. __________________ mishra.tv Productions A Sydney-based group for dance movement-based video and film productions.