Wireless lav or shotgun mic? at DVinfo.net

Joe Riggs · May 13th, 2012, 05:01 AM

Hi,

I'll be recording sit down interviews at a convention center where it will be noisy and I'll have little control over the environment. I'll be stationary and the subject will be speaking directly to the camera in a medium close up shot. Which type of mic would yield the best sound in this situation wireless lav or shotgun mic?

Thank you,

Joe

Chris Medico · May 13th, 2012, 06:27 AM

If you are indoors don't use a shotgun.

Use either a lav (preferred) or if you need to use a boom then use a super-cardioid mic (the person can't move around much or your levels will be all over the place).

Rick Reineke · May 13th, 2012, 07:08 AM

IMO a lav is your best bet. I've always liked the ECM-55 for it's tight sound, though it's huge by today's standards . Unfortunately cardioid lavs have other inherent issues and I would only use them if feedback is an issue. (integrated PA system)
A shotgun could work if the ceilings are high and your not in close proximity to a hard wall, but a lav would still offer better isolation from extraneous noise.
For quick stand-up interviews I'd recommend a H/H reporter's mic like the venerable EV RE50 or the Sennheiser MD42 or 46.

Richard Crowley · May 13th, 2012, 07:08 AM

The recommendation for not using shotgun mics indoors is not related to indoors/outdoors. It is related to the presence of close (acoustic) reflections which destroy the directional characteristics of the microphone and render it almost worse than an omni.

A room with a 20+ft ceiling and walls at least that far away is acoustically equivalent to being outdoors. A good anechoic chamber may be only 10 foot wide but is effectively "outdoors" for the purposes of a shotgun mic. And the middle of the Sahara desert with a bunch of hard flags and reflectors a few feet away may very well be "indoors" for the purposes of acoustic reflections. The popular "indoors" vs. "outdoors" shotgun rule is too simplistic to cover all cases.

Of course, from the brief description "sit down interviews at a convention center" we don't know whether that means inside a display booth with reflective walls (which would be the equivalent of "indoors") or out in the middle of the floor (which would effectively be "outdoors").

Paul R Johnson · May 13th, 2012, 12:28 PM

Phew! I'm glad Richard said that. Just recently there's been so much advice that you must not use shotguns indoors - which of course is rubbish. I always use my ears. If you can hear the 'walls', then so will the mic. I'm always very wary of the advice to use a cardioid or supercardioid on a boom. These mics need to be close in, and inverse square law means that moving the mics just a small amount to or from the source produces big changes in level - attached to a boom, keeping distance the same is really hard, because the angle is fixed - whereas a hand can rotate.If it's a small space - then a cardioid/super-cardioid out of shot sounds distant anyway - and a shotgun can give you better results. The room, and the placement in it are the key. A nice long handled omni in shot, a cardioid just out of shot if you're on CUs, or a shotgun out of shot on MCU or wider. Ears are the key! The only rule is there isn't a rule, just guidance.

Chris Medico · May 13th, 2012, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

I'm always very wary of the advice to use a cardioid or supercardioid on a boom. .

A shotgun mic is a cardioid pattern mic that uses either phased elements or a waveguide interference tube to enhance its pattern. The same rules go for it as any other mic regarding distance and aiming.

Non shotgun tight pattern mics are VERY effective on booms. They require the same attention of operation as a shotgun.

Get one of these and try it out. You will be instantly convinced. I sure was.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/377424-REG/Schoeps_CMC641_SET_Colette_Series_Microphone_Set.html

John Willett · May 13th, 2012, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Crowley

The recommendation for not using shotgun mics indoors is not related to indoors/outdoors. It is related to the presence of close (acoustic) reflections which destroy the directional characteristics of the microphone and render it almost worse than an omni.

A room with a 20+ft ceiling and walls at least that far away is acoustically equivalent to being outdoors. A good anechoic chamber may be only 10 foot wide but is effectively "outdoors" for the purposes of a shotgun mic. And the middle of the Sahara desert with a bunch of hard flags and reflectors a few feet away may very well be "indoors" for the purposes of acoustic reflections. The popular "indoors" vs. "outdoors" shotgun rule is too simplistic to cover all cases.

Of course, from the brief description "sit down interviews at a convention center" we don't know whether that means inside a display booth with reflective walls (which would be the equivalent of "indoors") or out in the middle of the floor (which would effectively be "outdoors").

Thank you for posting this Richard - this is correct and I wish more people would realise it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Medico

A shotgun mic is a cardioid pattern mic that uses either phased elements or a waveguide interference tube to enhance its pattern. The same rules go for it as any other mic regarding distance and aiming.

Non shotgun tight pattern mics are VERY effective on booms. They require the same attention of operation as a shotgun.

Get one of these and try it out. You will be instantly convinced. I sure was.

Schoeps Colette Series Supercardioid Microphone Set CMC641G SET

Actually, most gun mics are a super-cardioid NOT a cardioid, as the super-cardioid gives you the directivity at low frequencies and the interference tube then pulls it tighter at the higher frequencies.

Tony Koretz · May 14th, 2012, 05:06 AM

Shotgun mics are "generally not" the best solution for indoors. But if a room is well treated and doesn't have early reflection problems they can be fine. The reality is though, that more times than not, rooms do have early reflection problems (unless it's a well treated recording studio or a vocal booth) so there are better choices than shotgun mics for most indoor recording.

Shotgun mics are not usually cardioid........they use either supercardioid or hypercardioid capsules in an interference tube.

May 13th, 2012, 05:01 AM	#1
Joe Riggs Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 189	Wireless lav or shotgun mic? Hi, I'll be recording sit down interviews at a convention center where it will be noisy and I'll have little control over the environment. I'll be stationary and the subject will be speaking directly to the camera in a medium close up shot. Which type of mic would yield the best sound in this situation wireless lav or shotgun mic? Thank you, Joe

May 13th, 2012, 06:27 AM	#2
Chris Medico Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Efland NC, USA Posts: 2,322	Re: Wireless lav or shotgun mic? If you are indoors don't use a shotgun. Use either a lav (preferred) or if you need to use a boom then use a super-cardioid mic (the person can't move around much or your levels will be all over the place). __________________ http://www.LandYachtMedia.com

May 13th, 2012, 07:08 AM	#3
Rick Reineke Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New York Posts: 2,039	Re: Wireless lav or shotgun mic? IMO a lav is your best bet. I've always liked the ECM-55 for it's tight sound, though it's huge by today's standards . Unfortunately cardioid lavs have other inherent issues and I would only use them if feedback is an issue. (integrated PA system) A shotgun could work if the ceilings are high and your not in close proximity to a hard wall, but a lav would still offer better isolation from extraneous noise. For quick stand-up interviews I'd recommend a H/H reporter's mic like the venerable EV RE50 or the Sennheiser MD42 or 46.

May 13th, 2012, 07:08 AM	#4
Richard Crowley Trustee Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 1,238	Re: Wireless lav or shotgun mic? The recommendation for not using shotgun mics indoors is not related to indoors/outdoors. It is related to the presence of close (acoustic) reflections which destroy the directional characteristics of the microphone and render it almost worse than an omni. A room with a 20+ft ceiling and walls at least that far away is acoustically equivalent to being outdoors. A good anechoic chamber may be only 10 foot wide but is effectively "outdoors" for the purposes of a shotgun mic. And the middle of the Sahara desert with a bunch of hard flags and reflectors a few feet away may very well be "indoors" for the purposes of acoustic reflections. The popular "indoors" vs. "outdoors" shotgun rule is too simplistic to cover all cases. Of course, from the brief description "sit down interviews at a convention center" we don't know whether that means inside a display booth with reflective walls (which would be the equivalent of "indoors") or out in the middle of the floor (which would effectively be "outdoors").

May 13th, 2012, 12:28 PM	#5
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,044	Re: Wireless lav or shotgun mic? Phew! I'm glad Richard said that. Just recently there's been so much advice that you must not use shotguns indoors - which of course is rubbish. I always use my ears. If you can hear the 'walls', then so will the mic. I'm always very wary of the advice to use a cardioid or supercardioid on a boom. These mics need to be close in, and inverse square law means that moving the mics just a small amount to or from the source produces big changes in level - attached to a boom, keeping distance the same is really hard, because the angle is fixed - whereas a hand can rotate.If it's a small space - then a cardioid/super-cardioid out of shot sounds distant anyway - and a shotgun can give you better results. The room, and the placement in it are the key. A nice long handled omni in shot, a cardioid just out of shot if you're on CUs, or a shotgun out of shot on MCU or wider. Ears are the key! The only rule is there isn't a rule, just guidance.

May 14th, 2012, 05:06 AM	#8
Tony Koretz Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Waikanae Beach, Kapiti Coast, New Zealand Posts: 44	Re: Wireless lav or shotgun mic? Shotgun mics are "generally not" the best solution for indoors. But if a room is well treated and doesn't have early reflection problems they can be fine. The reality is though, that more times than not, rooms do have early reflection problems (unless it's a well treated recording studio or a vocal booth) so there are better choices than shotgun mics for most indoor recording. Shotgun mics are not usually cardioid........they use either supercardioid or hypercardioid capsules in an interference tube.