mixing clips with different room tones at DVinfo.net

Renton Maclachlan · May 10th, 2012, 01:44 PM

I'm making a video which includes shifting from a clip of a person speaking in a very large church auditorium, to me speaking in my studio. There is a very marked difference in room tone between these two clips and have been wondering how to transition between them without the difference appearing so stark. Any thoughts?

Richard Crowley · May 10th, 2012, 01:59 PM

But if we can SEE the large space and the small space, why is that a problem? The audio should match the visual ambience.

Allan Black · May 10th, 2012, 06:46 PM

Hi Rinso :) balance the 2 voice levels so they audibly match for the viewer and let the studio and church 'room' tones fall where they may.
The reverberant church background sounds might add more interest to the piece.

Hopefully the mics are about the same distance from each talent.

Cheers, Action.

Renton Maclachlan · May 10th, 2012, 10:42 PM

Thanks Action. I sort of wondered about doing that, and have already dropped the volume of the church clip audio. I'll have another look at it tonight.

I also wondered about putting a 'drone' from Cinescore over the transition. I'm not going to go straight from one clip to the other, but fad one out to the guys name and the venue on a black background, then fad my one in. If I started a drone maybe fading up from about 20 seconds from the end of the first one, going over the name screen, then fading down on mine for 20 seconds, it could work. I'll fiddle around and see...

My clip has great audio - from two Rode mics - NT3 and pin mic - both nice and close - but it sounds flat compared to the church one because there's no reverb...

Allan Black · May 11th, 2012, 05:30 PM

Try boosting the top frequencies on your studio sound and find a short reverb to add to it.

Careful it all doesn't get too complicated, I'd run it past others before you master it.

Cheers.

David W. Jones · May 11th, 2012, 05:43 PM

Try an L-cut to transition between the two locations.

Renton Maclachlan · May 11th, 2012, 06:18 PM

Allan: Over the last few years as I've been learning the whole video/audio deal (some of my learning you have been involved in - thanks)...and having realised that audio is actually primary in video productions, I've tried to get the best audio I can when I've been recording, within my budget for gear etc - (I've wanted good stuff but not over the top in terms of price).

However I have never looked at 'adding to' or doing anything with the good sound I have recorded...thinking that it does not need 'improving'. I have read of trying to get the cleanest audio you can at a shoot, which then allows you the possibility of starting with good sound and doing things to it in post, but I haven't explored this in anyway, and have no idea how to make improvements as you're suggesting. Are there any principles involved in this - to know what you should be heading towards, or suggestions on it all? When you need to do stuff, then what you need to do, and so on?

Allan Black · May 11th, 2012, 06:59 PM

Rins, excuse me if some of my stuff sounds basic. You know every situation will be different and here you're endevouring to match 2 totally different audio recordings, noting we can't hear any samples, can you post some?

But the final arbitor will be the listeners ear, you have in your favour he/she will expect everything to sound OK, they'll be able to hear the voices without straining, so once you reach that situation, I'd move on.

On your NLE, Vegas? you'll find audio equalisers for each channel, try boosting your studio voice in the mid range .. about 2.5Kh at 2-3db. Don't overdo it.

Eventually I'd just listen to the 'final' match even though the church voice might read low level on the meters.

Another thing to watch is, the viewer will have their players audio set at the last DVD they played. It'll probably be a pro movie or similar, so when they play your DVD, they'll get up to adjust your DVD audio for their listening level .. at the start.

Simulate this by trying that yourself, once you set your DVD level, you don't want to be readjusting it because one of the voices is too hard to hear.

Cheers.

Renton Maclachlan · May 11th, 2012, 10:09 PM

Allan: No trouble about things being too basic. Both voices are very easy to hear...that is not the issue I was raising. It was the question of room tone, which makes the audio sound so different. Last night I put some music behind the transition to mask the change and it sounds alright.

David: I'm not sure that would work in this case...although I have produced some pieces for youtube where L cuts would improve the dialogue. I didn't know about them when I made them but next time will use them... :-)

Paul R Johnson · May 12th, 2012, 02:13 AM

I really can't go with adding reverb to a dry room - that will sound mismatched, and will be 'twigged' by everyone as wrong, even though many won't be able to put their finger on it. I'd probably put a simple fade on the audio across the video join - which will do the location has changed trick.

Renton Maclachlan · May 12th, 2012, 02:54 AM

Thanks Paul. I think I've nailed it to my satisfaction...at least at this stage...

May 10th, 2012, 01:44 PM	#1
Renton Maclachlan Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,180	mixing clips with different room tones I'm making a video which includes shifting from a clip of a person speaking in a very large church auditorium, to me speaking in my studio. There is a very marked difference in room tone between these two clips and have been wondering how to transition between them without the difference appearing so stark. Any thoughts?

May 10th, 2012, 01:59 PM	#2
Richard Crowley Trustee Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 1,238	Re: mixing clips with different room tones But if we can SEE the large space and the small space, why is that a problem? The audio should match the visual ambience.

May 10th, 2012, 06:46 PM	#3
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,918	Re: mixing clips with different room tones Hi Rinso :) balance the 2 voice levels so they audibly match for the viewer and let the studio and church 'room' tones fall where they may. The reverberant church background sounds might add more interest to the piece. Hopefully the mics are about the same distance from each talent. Cheers, Action. __________________ Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.

May 10th, 2012, 10:42 PM	#4
Renton Maclachlan Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,180	Re: mixing clips with different room tones Thanks Action. I sort of wondered about doing that, and have already dropped the volume of the church clip audio. I'll have another look at it tonight. I also wondered about putting a 'drone' from Cinescore over the transition. I'm not going to go straight from one clip to the other, but fad one out to the guys name and the venue on a black background, then fad my one in. If I started a drone maybe fading up from about 20 seconds from the end of the first one, going over the name screen, then fading down on mine for 20 seconds, it could work. I'll fiddle around and see... My clip has great audio - from two Rode mics - NT3 and pin mic - both nice and close - but it sounds flat compared to the church one because there's no reverb...

May 11th, 2012, 05:30 PM	#5
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,918	Re: mixing clips with different room tones Try boosting the top frequencies on your studio sound and find a short reverb to add to it. Careful it all doesn't get too complicated, I'd run it past others before you master it. Cheers. __________________ Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.

May 11th, 2012, 05:43 PM	#6
David W. Jones Trustee Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Little Rock Posts: 1,383	Re: mixing clips with different room tones Try an L-cut to transition between the two locations. __________________ David W. Jones www.joneshdfilms.com

May 11th, 2012, 06:18 PM	#7
Renton Maclachlan Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,180	Re: mixing clips with different room tones Allan: Over the last few years as I've been learning the whole video/audio deal (some of my learning you have been involved in - thanks)...and having realised that audio is actually primary in video productions, I've tried to get the best audio I can when I've been recording, within my budget for gear etc - (I've wanted good stuff but not over the top in terms of price). However I have never looked at 'adding to' or doing anything with the good sound I have recorded...thinking that it does not need 'improving'. I have read of trying to get the cleanest audio you can at a shoot, which then allows you the possibility of starting with good sound and doing things to it in post, but I haven't explored this in anyway, and have no idea how to make improvements as you're suggesting. Are there any principles involved in this - to know what you should be heading towards, or suggestions on it all? When you need to do stuff, then what you need to do, and so on?

May 11th, 2012, 06:59 PM	#8
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,918	Re: mixing clips with different room tones Rins, excuse me if some of my stuff sounds basic. You know every situation will be different and here you're endevouring to match 2 totally different audio recordings, noting we can't hear any samples, can you post some? But the final arbitor will be the listeners ear, you have in your favour he/she will expect everything to sound OK, they'll be able to hear the voices without straining, so once you reach that situation, I'd move on. On your NLE, Vegas? you'll find audio equalisers for each channel, try boosting your studio voice in the mid range .. about 2.5Kh at 2-3db. Don't overdo it. Eventually I'd just listen to the 'final' match even though the church voice might read low level on the meters. Another thing to watch is, the viewer will have their players audio set at the last DVD they played. It'll probably be a pro movie or similar, so when they play your DVD, they'll get up to adjust your DVD audio for their listening level .. at the start. Simulate this by trying that yourself, once you set your DVD level, you don't want to be readjusting it because one of the voices is too hard to hear. Cheers. __________________ Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.

May 11th, 2012, 10:09 PM	#9
Renton Maclachlan Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,180	Re: mixing clips with different room tones Allan: No trouble about things being too basic. Both voices are very easy to hear...that is not the issue I was raising. It was the question of room tone, which makes the audio sound so different. Last night I put some music behind the transition to mask the change and it sounds alright. David: I'm not sure that would work in this case...although I have produced some pieces for youtube where L cuts would improve the dialogue. I didn't know about them when I made them but next time will use them... :-) Last edited by Renton Maclachlan; May 12th, 2012 at 02:53 AM.

May 12th, 2012, 02:13 AM	#10
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,044	Re: mixing clips with different room tones I really can't go with adding reverb to a dry room - that will sound mismatched, and will be 'twigged' by everyone as wrong, even though many won't be able to put their finger on it. I'd probably put a simple fade on the audio across the video join - which will do the location has changed trick.

May 12th, 2012, 02:54 AM	#11
Renton Maclachlan Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,180	Re: mixing clips with different room tones Thanks Paul. I think I've nailed it to my satisfaction...at least at this stage...