Foam for sanken cs-3e at DVinfo.net

Tom Morrow · January 24th, 2012, 07:06 PM

I just bought a used Sanken cs-3e. In dollars per ounce, this is probably the most expensive thing I've ever bought, so I want to protect it. I don't know how anyone is coordinated enough to keep a boom mic from hitting walls and ceilings while putting on headphones or adjusting equipment.

I already have a Rycote S series blimp which will protect it outdoors, and I'm looking for a foam that would give less protection but less high frequency attenuation. Something to leave on most of the time for protection.

I asked Sanken about their foams, and they gave some helpful info:

Quote:

Windscreens are not manufactured by Sanken, rather offered for those dealers that do not have access already to usable products.

The SG-1 is procured locally in the US and are labeled CS-3FW (foam windscreen) on the US Price Lists. They are also marketed under the Olesen brand at various professional dealers.
The WM-23 is procured via Japan and may be branded under another name in the US. They tend to be more expensive, but their functionality is quite similar.

Before I buy an SG-1 (cheaper than the apparently identical CS-3FW), I'm curious if anyone has an opinion about the WM-23, the Japanese made version. I generally find that the Japanese products are better; I'm hoping it might be just a bit more acoustically transparent.

Tom Morrow · January 25th, 2012, 05:37 AM

One more to consider: Rycote 104401 18cm Standard Hole SGM Foam is listed on Rycote's website as the one for the Sanken cs3. at $25 it's half the cost of the WM23.

Garrett Low · January 25th, 2012, 04:04 PM

Hey Tom,

Good to hear you found a CS-3e. A not on the Rycote 104401, the specs say it's for a 19mm to 22mm diameter. it may be a little loose on the CS-3e.

-Garrett

Rob Katz · January 27th, 2012, 04:00 PM

tom-

i've been looking for a used sanken for ages.

good for you!!!

if i may ask, care to share the price you paid?

if you rather not disclose via the forum, would you rather respond via pm?

again, huge thumbs up.

be well.

rob
smalltalk productions

Tom Morrow · January 27th, 2012, 06:03 PM

It isn't easy finding a used cs-3e; people seem to hold onto them. I ended up getting mine from an auction on ebay. It initially looked a little sketchy (lo-res photos only), but I ended up getting to know the seller a bit over email and got comfortable with the sale. $1000. There was also a used one available from Guy Cochran who posts on these forums, at a higher cost for one that was used less.

One thing to keep in mind buying these used is that there was a recent rf fix:
http://www.sekd.com/sanken/support/C...ionMay2010.pdf
and if I had known that I might have bought the newer one from Guy instead; the one I paid $1000 for apparently doesn't have the fix.

I am about to order the wm23 and sg1 windscreens from B&H; I spend enough with them that I don't think it's outrageous to return whichever one I don't like.

FYI another little fit issue: Rycote says their S-series blimp lyre clips handle mics 19mm and up, and they list the cs-3e as compatible, but I found the 19mm diameter of the cs-3e too small; it slid right out of the clips. The easy workaround is a couple of layers of gaffer tape on the mic.

Tom Morrow · February 24th, 2012, 08:11 PM

I got the WM23 and SG1 foams for the CS-3e. Here are my obsessive impressions :-)

The $50 WM23 is subtly better in most ways. It's a special order, nonreturnable item at B&H, probably because it came from Japan. The foam is a bit softer, less stiff than the SG1, which I suspect will be better at damping the wind so the foam doesn't conduct it to the microphone.

The WM23 fits better; it just covers the holes of the cs-3e, whereas the SG1 is longer and extends past the holes by approx 1/2", forcing me to adjust my lyre suspension into a slightly unnatural position.

Perhaps the biggest difference is that there is almost an inch of solid foam in front of the microphone on the SG1, but only about 1/3" of foam forward of the mic in the WM23. That extra foam might help in a headwind, but might also tend to reduce direct sound, rolling off the highs..

The WM23 has completely rounded corners, whereas there is a bit of flatness on the SG1 corners that might catch the wind a bit.

I did quick tests, recording myself at 5 ft, 3ft, and 10 inches with no foam, WM32, and SG1. It sounded like the WM32 rolled off the highs a little more than the SG1. Both rolled off highs more than no foam, and in this particular room/speaker/environment I slightly preferred the tone of the deeper WM23, although I'm sure other circumstances would be different.

I then played around with sticking them into a window cracked open so wind came in. The wind protection seemed roughly equivalent between the two; no major differences.

Overall the WM23 seems best out of the box; the only issues is that the softer foam strikes me as the kind that will deteriorate and crumble over time, whereas the SG1 foam will probably last longer.

I'm thinking of cutting down the 1" of foam in front of the mic on the SG1, and using it for scratch protection when I use the microphone indoors in places with low ceilings. I'll keep the WM23 untouched for outdoor use in light wind.

Richard Crowley · February 24th, 2012, 08:55 PM

And the SG1 appears to be available in an amazing variety of colors. I believe most of the Wind-Tech/Olsen Audio foam gags are available in most or all of those 20 different colors.

I have heard arguments both ways about foam gag colors for indoor boom use. Black/dark gray makes it harder to see the mic drifting into the top of the frame which could have benefits either way. A bright color makes it easier to see by everyone (and probably safer in low-light conditions). And again, that could be good or bad.

Greg Kiger · February 27th, 2012, 03:54 PM

a super low tech / free / maybe obvious add on...we now instruct our crew to wait to install our super awesome Sanken until we have the stand / boom / cables all in position for our interviews - sand bags in place, etc. Only then do we attach the mic. Seeing it hit the deck once was all my heart could take. Great mic !

Tom Morrow · February 29th, 2012, 02:59 AM

I note that the new Shoeps shotgun microphones are a brilliant blue color, unlike all the other Shoeps mics. I have to assume they did their research. I actually looked for an SG1 in a bright color, but was only able to find black.

These days I'm finding myself judging whether my boom is in frame by looking a LCD displays on cameras or monitors, and a bright color would sure help.

January 25th, 2012, 05:37 AM	#2
Tom Morrow Major Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 416	Re: Foam for sanken cs-3e One more to consider: Rycote 104401 18cm Standard Hole SGM Foam is listed on Rycote's website as the one for the Sanken cs3. at $25 it's half the cost of the WM23.

January 25th, 2012, 04:04 PM	#3
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	Re: Foam for sanken cs-3e Hey Tom, Good to hear you found a CS-3e. A not on the Rycote 104401, the specs say it's for a 19mm to 22mm diameter. it may be a little loose on the CS-3e. -Garrett __________________ Garrett Low www.GLowMediaProductions.com

January 27th, 2012, 04:00 PM	#4
Rob Katz Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: new york city, new york Posts: 594	Re: Foam for sanken cs-3e tom- i've been looking for a used sanken for ages. good for you!!! if i may ask, care to share the price you paid? if you rather not disclose via the forum, would you rather respond via pm? again, huge thumbs up. be well. rob smalltalk productions

January 27th, 2012, 06:03 PM	#5
Tom Morrow Major Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 416	Re: Foam for sanken cs-3e It isn't easy finding a used cs-3e; people seem to hold onto them. I ended up getting mine from an auction on ebay. It initially looked a little sketchy (lo-res photos only), but I ended up getting to know the seller a bit over email and got comfortable with the sale. $1000. There was also a used one available from Guy Cochran who posts on these forums, at a higher cost for one that was used less. One thing to keep in mind buying these used is that there was a recent rf fix: http://www.sekd.com/sanken/support/C...ionMay2010.pdf and if I had known that I might have bought the newer one from Guy instead; the one I paid $1000 for apparently doesn't have the fix. I am about to order the wm23 and sg1 windscreens from B&H; I spend enough with them that I don't think it's outrageous to return whichever one I don't like. FYI another little fit issue: Rycote says their S-series blimp lyre clips handle mics 19mm and up, and they list the cs-3e as compatible, but I found the 19mm diameter of the cs-3e too small; it slid right out of the clips. The easy workaround is a couple of layers of gaffer tape on the mic.

February 24th, 2012, 08:11 PM	#6
Tom Morrow Major Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 416	Re: Foam for sanken cs-3e I got the WM23 and SG1 foams for the CS-3e. Here are my obsessive impressions :-) The $50 WM23 is subtly better in most ways. It's a special order, nonreturnable item at B&H, probably because it came from Japan. The foam is a bit softer, less stiff than the SG1, which I suspect will be better at damping the wind so the foam doesn't conduct it to the microphone. The WM23 fits better; it just covers the holes of the cs-3e, whereas the SG1 is longer and extends past the holes by approx 1/2", forcing me to adjust my lyre suspension into a slightly unnatural position. Perhaps the biggest difference is that there is almost an inch of solid foam in front of the microphone on the SG1, but only about 1/3" of foam forward of the mic in the WM23. That extra foam might help in a headwind, but might also tend to reduce direct sound, rolling off the highs.. The WM23 has completely rounded corners, whereas there is a bit of flatness on the SG1 corners that might catch the wind a bit. I did quick tests, recording myself at 5 ft, 3ft, and 10 inches with no foam, WM32, and SG1. It sounded like the WM32 rolled off the highs a little more than the SG1. Both rolled off highs more than no foam, and in this particular room/speaker/environment I slightly preferred the tone of the deeper WM23, although I'm sure other circumstances would be different. I then played around with sticking them into a window cracked open so wind came in. The wind protection seemed roughly equivalent between the two; no major differences. Overall the WM23 seems best out of the box; the only issues is that the softer foam strikes me as the kind that will deteriorate and crumble over time, whereas the SG1 foam will probably last longer. I'm thinking of cutting down the 1" of foam in front of the mic on the SG1, and using it for scratch protection when I use the microphone indoors in places with low ceilings. I'll keep the WM23 untouched for outdoor use in light wind.

February 24th, 2012, 08:55 PM	#7
Richard Crowley Trustee Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 1,238	Re: Foam for sanken cs-3e And the SG1 appears to be available in an amazing variety of colors. I believe most of the Wind-Tech/Olsen Audio foam gags are available in most or all of those 20 different colors. I have heard arguments both ways about foam gag colors for indoor boom use. Black/dark gray makes it harder to see the mic drifting into the top of the frame which could have benefits either way. A bright color makes it easier to see by everyone (and probably safer in low-light conditions). And again, that could be good or bad.

February 27th, 2012, 03:54 PM	#8
Greg Kiger Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 134	Re: Foam for sanken cs-3e a super low tech / free / maybe obvious add on...we now instruct our crew to wait to install our super awesome Sanken until we have the stand / boom / cables all in position for our interviews - sand bags in place, etc. Only then do we attach the mic. Seeing it hit the deck once was all my heart could take. Great mic ! __________________ Greg Kiger St Louis Mo www.GreenBridgeFilms.com Sony EX1 / Canon 5Dm2 / Cool Lights / DP1x / Marshall / Oktava / Sanken / Kessler

February 29th, 2012, 02:59 AM	#9
Tom Morrow Major Player Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 416	Re: Foam for sanken cs-3e I note that the new Shoeps shotgun microphones are a brilliant blue color, unlike all the other Shoeps mics. I have to assume they did their research. I actually looked for an SG1 in a bright color, but was only able to find black. These days I'm finding myself judging whether my boom is in frame by looking a LCD displays on cameras or monitors, and a bright color would sure help.