Zoom H4n Workflow at DVinfo.net

Scott Hamilton · November 10th, 2011, 08:22 AM

Hey guys,

I wanted to post a quick workflow of how I'm using the H4n, and make sure I'm not doing it the hard way. This following method is working fine but it seems like there would be a more direct way.

1) I record in STE (stereo) mode, with an NTG 2 shotgun going into input 1.

2) This records into the left channel, and records a dead track into the right.

3) Once I had all my audio synced in FCP, I eliminate the dead track, and duplicate the good one. I do this by highlighting the audio track, click Modify, then uncheck "Stereo Pair". This allows me to delete the dead track. I then copy and paste the good track, high the 2 tracks, go back up to Modify, and click "Stereo Pair". This gives me a true stereo signal. I used to just pan the original track from -1, to 0 which seemed like a good quick fix, but then I realized I still had the original dead track (right track) mixed in, adding extra noise.

So my question is (and I know this looks suspiciously like a post production question), is there a way to record on the Zoom directly into the right and left tracks, using just the NTG2 plugged into the first track, so I don't have to do this? Again, it's not that time consuming, it just seems like it would be easier. For example, in ProTools, you can plug 1 mic into input 1 but set it to record on multiple channels.

Scott

Rick Reineke · November 10th, 2011, 11:39 AM

I'm not that familiar with FCP, but basically what you want to do is, remove (or delete) the dead track, Create a single mono file of the 'good' track and pan it to center.

"click "Stereo Pair". This gives me a true stereo signal."
-- taking a mono track and converging it to two identical trk.s (or a stereo file) IS NOT a "true stereo signal", it will still be heard as mono.
FYI: If it was to be saved that way as a 'stereo' PCM file, (AIFF or WAVE) it would merely 'double' the file size. Doing the same with an MP3 (at the same kbps rate) the 'stereo' file would have less quality than it's mono counterpart.

Shaun Roemich · November 10th, 2011, 11:47 AM

Tracks in FCP (excluding FCPX which I know nothing about) are intrinsically mono. When you add yourZoom media to the time line, delete the unused track in the pair,.and in the Viewer window Pan settings, change the remaining track pan to 0 (centred). You don't need to add a second "identical" track.

Scott Hamilton · November 10th, 2011, 10:05 PM

Cool, gotcha. Yeah, I guess I misused the the term. Thanks for the clarification!

Josh Fung · November 14th, 2011, 03:13 PM

Scott,

I had your question a while ago, it wasn't til one of my friends showed me that I realised the feature was in the H4n the whole time!

All you do is, goto INPUT, in the H4N Menu, Select INPUT1/Input2 Link or something (off the top of my head, this links volume levels of both tracks to be the same) and the MONO (few options down from Input link). Voila!!!

Its as easy as that.

Tom Weistar · November 14th, 2011, 03:39 PM

Josh has got it pretty close. I have the very same equipment.

In the H4n menu go to input then to mono mix and turn it on. This will put an identical mono signal on both channels.

The bad news it will also cut your gain in half requiring you to up the record input gain to get decent levels. The preamps in the Zoom H4n are not the best so now you maybe way up at 90+ to get good levels and this will increase the hiss. If you are using a mixer with additional gain than this might be a good idea.

I don't see anything wrong with your work around work flow. That is how I have done it as well. Having two distinct mono tracks for voice seems like a good idea, then you can pan one track louder to match the visual on the screen.

Hope this helps.

Scott Hamilton · November 15th, 2011, 07:58 PM

Cool, guys. That's probably exactly what I was looking for. Tom, I do have a question for you based on what you mentioned about record in level.

In a situation where I can't get my mic close enough to sound desirable, is it best to record around 60 or 70 for the input level and then plan on bumping it up in post, or would you go ahead and hit it up to around 90 or 100, knowing it will add more hiss? I've done both and neither one sounds great... So obviously the best option is just get the mic closer, but when you're in a situation that you can't, which would you do?

Scott

Tom Weistar · November 17th, 2011, 01:23 PM

I have gotten better results by keeping the input levels on the Zoom down below 90, as long as I am still getting up to about -12 on the peaks. Then I can take it up a little in post.

Do you have the latest firmware on your H4n? It allows independent level adjustment for each track. And it seems to have a little more gain from the preamps/amps. I don't know for sure but I recently updated mine and it seemed a little better.

I have a cheep Rolls mixer that I use some times and that helps a lot. It does add one more place for problems though.

Good luck, and do lots of tests!

Scott Hamilton · November 17th, 2011, 01:38 PM

Oh awesome, no I haven't checked out the latest firmware. Thanks for the tip!

November 10th, 2011, 08:22 AM	#1
Scott Hamilton Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Wichita Falls, TX Posts: 101	Zoom H4n Workflow Hey guys, I wanted to post a quick workflow of how I'm using the H4n, and make sure I'm not doing it the hard way. This following method is working fine but it seems like there would be a more direct way. 1) I record in STE (stereo) mode, with an NTG 2 shotgun going into input 1. 2) This records into the left channel, and records a dead track into the right. 3) Once I had all my audio synced in FCP, I eliminate the dead track, and duplicate the good one. I do this by highlighting the audio track, click Modify, then uncheck "Stereo Pair". This allows me to delete the dead track. I then copy and paste the good track, high the 2 tracks, go back up to Modify, and click "Stereo Pair". This gives me a true stereo signal. I used to just pan the original track from -1, to 0 which seemed like a good quick fix, but then I realized I still had the original dead track (right track) mixed in, adding extra noise. So my question is (and I know this looks suspiciously like a post production question), is there a way to record on the Zoom directly into the right and left tracks, using just the NTG2 plugged into the first track, so I don't have to do this? Again, it's not that time consuming, it just seems like it would be easier. For example, in ProTools, you can plug 1 mic into input 1 but set it to record on multiple channels. Scott

November 10th, 2011, 11:39 AM	#2
Rick Reineke Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New York Posts: 2,039	Re: Zoom H4n Workflow I'm not that familiar with FCP, but basically what you want to do is, remove (or delete) the dead track, Create a single mono file of the 'good' track and pan it to center. "click "Stereo Pair". This gives me a true stereo signal." -- taking a mono track and converging it to two identical trk.s (or a stereo file) IS NOT a "true stereo signal", it will still be heard as mono. FYI: If it was to be saved that way as a 'stereo' PCM file, (AIFF or WAVE) it would merely 'double' the file size. Doing the same with an MP3 (at the same kbps rate) the 'stereo' file would have less quality than it's mono counterpart.

November 10th, 2011, 11:47 AM	#3
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	Re: Zoom H4n Workflow Tracks in FCP (excluding FCPX which I know nothing about) are intrinsically mono. When you add yourZoom media to the time line, delete the unused track in the pair,.and in the Viewer window Pan settings, change the remaining track pan to 0 (centred). You don't need to add a second "identical" track. __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

November 10th, 2011, 10:05 PM	#4
Scott Hamilton Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Wichita Falls, TX Posts: 101	Re: Zoom H4n Workflow Cool, gotcha. Yeah, I guess I misused the the term. Thanks for the clarification!

November 14th, 2011, 03:13 PM	#5
Josh Fung Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 81	Re: Zoom H4n Workflow Scott, I had your question a while ago, it wasn't til one of my friends showed me that I realised the feature was in the H4n the whole time! All you do is, goto INPUT, in the H4N Menu, Select INPUT1/Input2 Link or something (off the top of my head, this links volume levels of both tracks to be the same) and the MONO (few options down from Input link). Voila!!! Its as easy as that.

November 14th, 2011, 03:39 PM	#6
Tom Weistar New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 24	Re: Zoom H4n Workflow Josh has got it pretty close. I have the very same equipment. In the H4n menu go to input then to mono mix and turn it on. This will put an identical mono signal on both channels. The bad news it will also cut your gain in half requiring you to up the record input gain to get decent levels. The preamps in the Zoom H4n are not the best so now you maybe way up at 90+ to get good levels and this will increase the hiss. If you are using a mixer with additional gain than this might be a good idea. I don't see anything wrong with your work around work flow. That is how I have done it as well. Having two distinct mono tracks for voice seems like a good idea, then you can pan one track louder to match the visual on the screen. Hope this helps. Last edited by Tom Weistar; November 14th, 2011 at 06:49 PM.

November 15th, 2011, 07:58 PM	#7
Scott Hamilton Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Wichita Falls, TX Posts: 101	Re: Zoom H4n Workflow Cool, guys. That's probably exactly what I was looking for. Tom, I do have a question for you based on what you mentioned about record in level. In a situation where I can't get my mic close enough to sound desirable, is it best to record around 60 or 70 for the input level and then plan on bumping it up in post, or would you go ahead and hit it up to around 90 or 100, knowing it will add more hiss? I've done both and neither one sounds great... So obviously the best option is just get the mic closer, but when you're in a situation that you can't, which would you do? Scott

November 17th, 2011, 01:23 PM	#8
Tom Weistar New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 24	Re: Zoom H4n Workflow I have gotten better results by keeping the input levels on the Zoom down below 90, as long as I am still getting up to about -12 on the peaks. Then I can take it up a little in post. Do you have the latest firmware on your H4n? It allows independent level adjustment for each track. And it seems to have a little more gain from the preamps/amps. I don't know for sure but I recently updated mine and it seemed a little better. I have a cheep Rolls mixer that I use some times and that helps a lot. It does add one more place for problems though. Good luck, and do lots of tests!

November 17th, 2011, 01:38 PM	#9
Scott Hamilton Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Wichita Falls, TX Posts: 101	Re: Zoom H4n Workflow Oh awesome, no I haven't checked out the latest firmware. Thanks for the tip!