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July 18th, 2011, 03:43 AM | #91 | |
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Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
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Top notch audio with mediocre video will have better client acceptance than will top notch video with medicore audio. If you have to compromise somewhere because of budget limitations. you're better off compromising the images and concentrating on getting the sound right. Consider a typical corporate gig, a welcome to the company message for new employees from the CEO. What is more important, what he has to say or showing an image that looks like a portrait shot by Karsh or Avedon?
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July 18th, 2011, 11:45 AM | #92 | |
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Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
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But anyway, I heard samples of the different mics below $200 on different clips on You Tube and Vimeo and the Azdens sound muffled, so I I ended up ordering the Audio Technica AT875R, which sounds great to me, at least from those sample clips. Here's one example: |
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July 18th, 2011, 12:53 PM | #93 | |
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Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
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July 18th, 2011, 01:12 PM | #94 | |
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Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
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As a kid, I remember watching stuff that was full of analog snow and ghosts - as long as the audio was okay. As long as I could kind of make out the picture, I'd watch. But if the sound was bad, click! South Park is my favorite example. The visuals are virtually stick figures. Heck, the Terrance and Phillip characters ARE stick figures. By contrast, the sound is expertly done. Of course, you said "mediocre". That gets harder to judge. One can use fairly cheap audio gear (as long as the preamp is good enough to avoid excess hiss) and apply good production and post techniques to get good sound. But this would be the case of mediocre gear, not mediocre sound. Similarly, great gear used poorly will produce poor audio. And poor audio should be avoided at all costs.
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July 18th, 2011, 01:52 PM | #95 | |
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Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
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Sure, there's a lot of room reverb but that's not the microphone's fault, it's simply a matter of the surroundings. |
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July 18th, 2011, 02:08 PM | #96 | |
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Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
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Let it buffer and when it lets you, go to around 4:50 and listen to the voices. Those voices were captured with my Zoom H1 recorder ($100) placed behind the floral arrangement on top of them. The H1 is stereo but for that purpose I set it to mono since it was there just to record voices. Then I got the stereo ambient audio from the internal mic of the camera I had at that point, a Panasonic HMC80. It may not be top notch audio, but it's very decent, and the groom has a very expensive home theater and is an audiophile, and he was very happy with the quality of the voices. I was like thirty feet away, so even if I would have had a $1500 shotgun mic on my camera, there was no way I was going to get the same voice quality I got with that $100 digital recorder. |
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July 18th, 2011, 04:40 PM | #97 |
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Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
Not bad on the vows .... could have had a bit more presence by putting a lav on either the groom, the officiant, or both but on the whole I'd consider it acceptable. Certainly far better than an on-camera mic would have done. Really lost it on the toast before the cutting of the cake though.
I'm never said you should have bought a $1500 camera in order to spend $2000 on the sound kit, just that that would be one possible approach unfder some circumstances. But to compromise on the camera, if that's what you have to do because of budget limitations, in order to invest in a basic pro-grade sound kit, up to a certain point, generally gives a better ROI of the long run. The point is that for the type of work you're positioning yourself to do - weddings, corporate events, etc and since you're not hiring a sound specialist who provides the kit - your sound kit and the selection of professional grade tools to go into it is of at least equal importance to your choice of camera kit. In an earlier post you complained about how terrible the camera's internal mics are and yet in your approach to the sound kit you're doing exactly what the camera designer's did, treating sound as an afterthought and not really all that important.
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July 18th, 2011, 05:19 PM | #98 | |
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Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
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The guy giving the toast doesn't sound too good, unfortunately they didn't tell me about it so I had to run to where he was and start recording with the internal camera mic, otherwise I would've put a lav on him as well. |
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July 20th, 2011, 01:15 PM | #99 |
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Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
I finally got the AT875R and it's quite an excellent microphone. What I don't understand is why Audio Technica offers very affordable stereo shotgun mics for 3.5mm inputs but the cheapest shotgun XLR stereo is $675 on B&H, the BP4029. There is a cheaper stereo XLR, the AT8022, but because of the shape it would look ridiculous on a camera, it's obviously meant for a microphone stand. And still, it's $500, not a lot cheaper. I don't understand why can't they make a stereo version of the AT875R, even if it's a little more expensive than the mono version.
I wonder, if I add a second AT875R, how different would that be from the stereo of a real stereo microphone? Because each mic would be recording to a separate channel, so it would be stereo in theory, but would it be as good as a directional stereo microphone? Would it make a big difference that they wouldn't be exactly side by side, but that one would be about one inch higher, about 45 degrees from the other one? I mean, the idea is that one will be on the holder, the other one on the shoe, and these are not at the same level. BTW, does anybody know where to buy a 6 inch XLR female to male cable? I bought the shortest one they had at monoprice, 1.5 feet, but it's still too long and it goes all the way down to the handle. I googled trying to find this but most places don't even have one as short as 1.5 ft. Last edited by Sebastian Alvarez; July 20th, 2011 at 01:47 PM. |
July 20th, 2011, 02:16 PM | #100 |
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Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
Two 875R's would not be a good idea as a stereo mic as they need to be crossed pair and the capsules are near the back of the mic, you are better getting what I recommended the sony ECM MS957 as it is a proper phase coherant M/S stereo mic. I have both and use them all the time with great results.
As for a short cable I have the .5m ones too but any shorter and you will have to make them or get them made up for you.
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July 20th, 2011, 02:19 PM | #101 | |
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Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
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July 20th, 2011, 04:14 PM | #102 | |
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Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
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The problem with using shotguns is that their pattern is a narrow cone of sensitivity. When used singly, they help pick out the desired sound they're aimed at from the surrounding ambience. But when recording stereo, you don't want a narrow beam of pickup, you want to pickup all the sounds coming from straight ahead and left and right, all across from one side to the other of the imaginary stage in front of you. The "V" shape of the two narrow 'beams' of sensitivity coming from two shotguns mounted together at the apex doesn't really do that very evenly. That's why two cardioids is probably the most common arrangement.
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July 20th, 2011, 04:37 PM | #103 | |
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Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
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As a point of interest, the term 'pro-sumer' supposedly arose as a description of gear that has professional-grade visual performance with consumer-grade audio circuits.
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July 20th, 2011, 05:00 PM | #104 | |
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Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
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My point is that, if I can avoid Sony, I will. |
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July 20th, 2011, 06:14 PM | #105 |
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Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic
It's still stereo, but not a natural sounding stereo.
Remember some of the Beatles recordings where the singer would be panned hard to one side and bass or guitar to the other? The effect of two shotguns would be similar to that, depending on angles, isolation, etc. There are many ways that we can record a stereo soundfield. None is perfect. They are all approximations. Two shotguns is still stereo, but a worse approximation than most. ;)
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