Need way to switch on\off audio to camera at DVinfo.net

Doug Struchen · August 19th, 2005, 01:38 PM

I need a way to easily switch on and off audio coming from a wireless receiver (ev100) and going into xlr input on my xl1s (through a ?ma100?).

I have a wireless transmitter on the ref for football games. Currently, all audio is captured on one of the 12 bit channels. I get rid of 90% of it in post. I would like to turn on the audio when the flag is thrown, and off after the official is done. I could switch on and off the receiver, but it is a small switch,and would most likely result in camera shake. The transmitter has a mute switch, but the ref would never remember it. I connect the receiver to the xl1s through an xlr connector - and the whole unit is on a tripod near the field. Any thoughts? A switch that I could mount to the tripod arm?

Thanks,
Doug Struchen

Jay Massengill · August 19th, 2005, 02:57 PM

ProCo makes a latching, noiseless foot-switch for this purpose. It's called the "Sign Off" and is similar to their less expensive momentary version called the Cough Drop (which would require constant pressure but would probably be faster to operate).

http://www.markertek.com/SearchProdu...ff=0&sort=prod

Bob Costa · August 20th, 2005, 05:34 AM

I would forget to turn it on sometimes. Is this just so you can avoid cutting it later in post? It feels like a bad plan to me. If you capture everything, you are good to go, if you miss something, no chance to get it again....

Steve House · August 20th, 2005, 06:10 AM

I'd agree with Bob. If you're going to keep video rolling, why cut audio, you're not going to gain anything? And if you're stopping tape, there's nothing being recorded anyway so again, why cut the audio feed? Keeping it live doesn't cost you anything.

Why record audio in 12-bit? You lose a lot of quality compared to 16-bit and the only thing you gain for that sacrifice is that audio channels 3&4 will remaion free so you can dub additional audio onto them later. If you really need space for 4 channels of audio on your camera original tape, 2 recorded in the shoot and 2 more added in post, then fine. But that's not a very common situation and you get a signifigant loss of audio quality, S/N ratio and such, with 12-bit versus 16-bit. Always make it a rule to record your master's in as high a quality as possible because there's nothing you can do in post that will make it better.

Doug Struchen · August 20th, 2005, 09:29 PM

Thanks for the info Jay. I'll look into it. Steve and Bob - I'd love to get it all - but running through every minute of audio and lowering levels for 14 hours (7 games each Sat) of football takes forever. I've gotten really good at seeing where the ref is saying something I want by looking at the level, but it is a very tedious process that I don't have time for. I'm running 12 bit audio because I need Channel 1 L&R for the onboard stereo mic, and Channel 2 L or R for the mono wireless lav from the ref. If there's a way to put that into 16bit - I'd love to know!

Chris Hurd · August 21st, 2005, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve House

Why record audio in 12-bit? You lose a lot of quality compared to 16-bit...

If we were talking about music, sure, but voices? I think you'd be hard pressed to notice the difference. Besides, in my opinion, a slight trade-off in "quality" is well worth the streamlined workflow. He's shooting a football game, not an opera.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · August 21st, 2005, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

If we were talking about music, sure, but voices? I think you'd be hard pressed to notice the difference. Besides, in my opinion, a slight trade-off in "quality" is well worth the streamlined workflow. He's shooting a football game, not an opera.

All things being equal, you'll hear the diff between 12 bit and 16 bit if there is much fan/stand noise, and even if not...you'll hear it. But it's not such a huge difference that anyone is going to hear it and say "That 12 bit audio sure sucks...."
that said....

If the dialog is recorded at proper levels, and care is taken to ensure good audio technique and gear, 12 bit is just fine. Not optimal, but very, very usable.
However, be aware that in post, 12 bit is a little bit challenging to deal with if you're trying to get it robust and pumped. However, it can be done, IF you've done everything else to the best you can.

Jack Smith · August 21st, 2005, 01:54 PM

I agree with the others that 12 bit might be ok in this situation.If having the better audio of 16 bit were critical ,an option would be to use the wireless on 1 channel and add an external on camera mic to input to the MA100.
To address the original question, if you have an assistant ,setup a mixer with the wireless feeding it and the assitant doing the mix.A second transmitter on the output of it to the camera receiver.
or Jay's solution sounds perfect for you.

August 19th, 2005, 01:38 PM	#1
Doug Struchen New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 15	Need way to switch on\off audio to camera I need a way to easily switch on and off audio coming from a wireless receiver (ev100) and going into xlr input on my xl1s (through a ?ma100?). I have a wireless transmitter on the ref for football games. Currently, all audio is captured on one of the 12 bit channels. I get rid of 90% of it in post. I would like to turn on the audio when the flag is thrown, and off after the official is done. I could switch on and off the receiver, but it is a small switch,and would most likely result in camera shake. The transmitter has a mute switch, but the ref would never remember it. I connect the receiver to the xl1s through an xlr connector - and the whole unit is on a tripod near the field. Any thoughts? A switch that I could mount to the tripod arm? Thanks, Doug Struchen

August 20th, 2005, 05:34 AM	#3
Bob Costa Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Venice, FL Posts: 850	I would forget to turn it on sometimes. Is this just so you can avoid cutting it later in post? It feels like a bad plan to me. If you capture everything, you are good to go, if you miss something, no chance to get it again.... __________________ You are either growing or dying.

August 19th, 2005, 02:57 PM	#2
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	ProCo makes a latching, noiseless foot-switch for this purpose. It's called the "Sign Off" and is similar to their less expensive momentary version called the Cough Drop (which would require constant pressure but would probably be faster to operate). http://www.markertek.com/SearchProdu...ff=0&sort=prod

August 20th, 2005, 06:10 AM	#4
Steve House Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,742	I'd agree with Bob. If you're going to keep video rolling, why cut audio, you're not going to gain anything? And if you're stopping tape, there's nothing being recorded anyway so again, why cut the audio feed? Keeping it live doesn't cost you anything. Why record audio in 12-bit? You lose a lot of quality compared to 16-bit and the only thing you gain for that sacrifice is that audio channels 3&4 will remaion free so you can dub additional audio onto them later. If you really need space for 4 channels of audio on your camera original tape, 2 recorded in the shoot and 2 more added in post, then fine. But that's not a very common situation and you get a signifigant loss of audio quality, S/N ratio and such, with 12-bit versus 16-bit. Always make it a rule to record your master's in as high a quality as possible because there's nothing you can do in post that will make it better.

August 20th, 2005, 09:29 PM	#5
Doug Struchen New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 15	Thanks for the info Jay. I'll look into it. Steve and Bob - I'd love to get it all - but running through every minute of audio and lowering levels for 14 hours (7 games each Sat) of football takes forever. I've gotten really good at seeing where the ref is saying something I want by looking at the level, but it is a very tedious process that I don't have time for. I'm running 12 bit audio because I need Channel 1 L&R for the onboard stereo mic, and Channel 2 L or R for the mono wireless lav from the ref. If there's a way to put that into 16bit - I'd love to know!

August 21st, 2005, 01:54 PM	#8
Jack Smith Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: ontario Posts: 445	I agree with the others that 12 bit might be ok in this situation.If having the better audio of 16 bit were critical ,an option would be to use the wireless on 1 channel and add an external on camera mic to input to the MA100. To address the original question, if you have an assistant ,setup a mixer with the wireless feeding it and the assitant doing the mix.A second transmitter on the output of it to the camera receiver. or Jay's solution sounds perfect for you.