H4N peaks from 1-100 at DVinfo.net

Kelly Langerak · May 9th, 2011, 04:12 PM

Hi, I did a show last night at the Great American Music Hall in San Francisco.

The sound man gave me a stereo feed (two xlr's) to put into my H4N. We did a sound check and it sounded fine.

The show started and my guy who was watching the audio noticed the sound was peaking at 75, so he brought it down as low as 5 on the H4N and still the sound was horrible.

I know for sure that I was using the 1 & 2 buttons on the H4n and not the Mic input. When I listened to the audio at home I can clearly hear the crowd cheering.

When my friend told the audio guy that the recording was peaking he turned the volume on his end all the way to off and yet we were still getting that horrible sound.

Question 1; when doing large live recording like that do you usually hear the audience cheer after a song?
Question 2: Is there a setting on my H4N that can give me a better range to adjust the sound with the Record Level button?

In past shoots, I've had to turn down the H4N to .6, .7

I'm trying to just wrap my head around why this happened. Maybe someone can shed some light on maybe why this happened and how I can prevent it.

Kelly

Chris Medico · May 9th, 2011, 04:29 PM

Did you have the inputs set to MIC or LINE in the menu?

I suspect you had the XLR inputs set to MIC but they were sending you a LINE level signal.

Kelly Langerak · May 9th, 2011, 04:41 PM

Hi Chris, I had the 1 and 2 button lit, but the mic button was off. Do I have to go into the settings to change it as well? I don't see it in the menu.

Thanks

Chris Medico · May 9th, 2011, 05:05 PM

Hi Kelly,

I got my recorders mixed up in my mind. You are right that there isn't a LINE/MIC setting on the H4N. Had to go grab mine and make sure.

Sorry about that.

Chris Medico · May 9th, 2011, 05:12 PM

If you run into that situation again you can use an external PAD to bring the levels down to an acceptable level.

This one is switchable.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68085-REG/Audio_Technica_AT8202_AT8202_In_Line_Attenuator.html

Kelly Langerak · May 9th, 2011, 06:29 PM

Thanks Chris,

I think the pickup audio of the crowd was just because they had 6 mics on stage, but what confuses me is that even the guy on the audio board cut out the signal completely and we still got a feed. Secondly, how is that going from 100 down to say 10 on the volume control didn't do anything to bring down the audio?

Chris Medico · May 9th, 2011, 06:45 PM

That is confusing unless you had a REALLY hot signal from the board.

Did you notice any distortion or was it a clean signal?

Greg Miller · May 9th, 2011, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelly Langerak

I think the pickup audio of the crowd was just because they had 6 mics on stage, but what confuses me is that even the guy on the audio board cut out the signal completely and we still got a feed.

Either the board op didn't really know what he was sending to your recorder (i.e. it was not really turned off completely) or else you were using the recorder's integral mics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelly Langerak

Secondly, how is that going from 100 down to say 10 on the volume control didn't do anything to bring down the audio?

Going down on which volume control? On the board, or on your recorder? I've never seen a volume control with a scale calibrated up to 100... up to 10 is more usual.

Andy Balla · May 9th, 2011, 07:29 PM

It sounds like you were taking a line level signal into the mic level inputs. You can dial it all the way down, and will still have distorted sound at loud points. If you can either get a mic level out from the board, or use some inline pads to bring it down to mic level, you should be fine.

Andy Balla · May 9th, 2011, 07:32 PM

@ Greg, he's talking about the input level on the Zoom. It goes from .5 (I think) to 100. I calibrate my mixer to my Zoom with the 1K tone, and the record level of the Zoom gets set around 70-75. Leaves plenty of headroom on my mixer.

Greg Miller · May 9th, 2011, 07:34 PM

Thanks Andy.

He says lowering recording gain from 100 to 10 does not change the level. Does the Zoom have some sort of AGC mode where the manual gain setting doesn't do anything? (I have an oddball Sony that's somewhat like that.)

Chris Medico · May 9th, 2011, 07:53 PM

It has a limiter circuit.

Aaron Spratt · May 9th, 2011, 08:03 PM

The H4n's XLR inputs are MIC level. If you want LINE level inputs you need to use the 1/4" TRS inputs.

Andy Balla · May 9th, 2011, 08:20 PM

Exactly, Aaron...

Andy Balla · May 9th, 2011, 08:23 PM

Also, @ Chris, you can shut off the limiter. I keep mine turned off, and rely on the much better limiter on my mixer.

May 9th, 2011, 04:12 PM	#1
Kelly Langerak Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Bay Area Posts: 522	H4N peaks from 1-100 Hi, I did a show last night at the Great American Music Hall in San Francisco. The sound man gave me a stereo feed (two xlr's) to put into my H4N. We did a sound check and it sounded fine. The show started and my guy who was watching the audio noticed the sound was peaking at 75, so he brought it down as low as 5 on the H4N and still the sound was horrible. I know for sure that I was using the 1 & 2 buttons on the H4n and not the Mic input. When I listened to the audio at home I can clearly hear the crowd cheering. When my friend told the audio guy that the recording was peaking he turned the volume on his end all the way to off and yet we were still getting that horrible sound. Question 1; when doing large live recording like that do you usually hear the audience cheer after a song? Question 2: Is there a setting on my H4N that can give me a better range to adjust the sound with the Record Level button? In past shoots, I've had to turn down the H4N to .6, .7 I'm trying to just wrap my head around why this happened. Maybe someone can shed some light on maybe why this happened and how I can prevent it. Kelly

May 9th, 2011, 04:29 PM	#2
Chris Medico Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Efland NC, USA Posts: 2,322	Re: H4N peaks from 1-100 Did you have the inputs set to MIC or LINE in the menu? I suspect you had the XLR inputs set to MIC but they were sending you a LINE level signal. __________________ http://www.LandYachtMedia.com

May 9th, 2011, 04:41 PM	#3
Kelly Langerak Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Bay Area Posts: 522	Re: H4N peaks from 1-100 Hi Chris, I had the 1 and 2 button lit, but the mic button was off. Do I have to go into the settings to change it as well? I don't see it in the menu. Thanks

May 9th, 2011, 05:05 PM	#4
Chris Medico Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Efland NC, USA Posts: 2,322	Re: H4N peaks from 1-100 Hi Kelly, I got my recorders mixed up in my mind. You are right that there isn't a LINE/MIC setting on the H4N. Had to go grab mine and make sure. Sorry about that. __________________ http://www.LandYachtMedia.com

May 9th, 2011, 05:12 PM	#5
Chris Medico Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Efland NC, USA Posts: 2,322	Re: H4N peaks from 1-100 If you run into that situation again you can use an external PAD to bring the levels down to an acceptable level. This one is switchable. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68085-REG/Audio_Technica_AT8202_AT8202_In_Line_Attenuator.html __________________ http://www.LandYachtMedia.com

May 9th, 2011, 06:29 PM	#6
Kelly Langerak Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Bay Area Posts: 522	Re: H4N peaks from 1-100 Thanks Chris, I think the pickup audio of the crowd was just because they had 6 mics on stage, but what confuses me is that even the guy on the audio board cut out the signal completely and we still got a feed. Secondly, how is that going from 100 down to say 10 on the volume control didn't do anything to bring down the audio?

May 9th, 2011, 06:45 PM	#7
Chris Medico Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Efland NC, USA Posts: 2,322	Re: H4N peaks from 1-100 That is confusing unless you had a REALLY hot signal from the board. Did you notice any distortion or was it a clean signal? __________________ http://www.LandYachtMedia.com

May 9th, 2011, 07:29 PM	#9
Andy Balla Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Asheville NC Posts: 182	Re: H4N peaks from 1-100 It sounds like you were taking a line level signal into the mic level inputs. You can dial it all the way down, and will still have distorted sound at loud points. If you can either get a mic level out from the board, or use some inline pads to bring it down to mic level, you should be fine.

May 9th, 2011, 07:32 PM	#10
Andy Balla Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Asheville NC Posts: 182	Re: H4N peaks from 1-100 @ Greg, he's talking about the input level on the Zoom. It goes from .5 (I think) to 100. I calibrate my mixer to my Zoom with the 1K tone, and the record level of the Zoom gets set around 70-75. Leaves plenty of headroom on my mixer.

May 9th, 2011, 07:34 PM	#11
Greg Miller Trustee Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,791	Re: H4N peaks from 1-100 Thanks Andy. He says lowering recording gain from 100 to 10 does not change the level. Does the Zoom have some sort of AGC mode where the manual gain setting doesn't do anything? (I have an oddball Sony that's somewhat like that.)

May 9th, 2011, 07:53 PM	#12
Chris Medico Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Efland NC, USA Posts: 2,322	Re: H4N peaks from 1-100 It has a limiter circuit. __________________ http://www.LandYachtMedia.com

May 9th, 2011, 08:03 PM	#13
Aaron Spratt Tourist Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Milford, MA Posts: 2	Re: H4N peaks from 1-100 The H4n's XLR inputs are MIC level. If you want LINE level inputs you need to use the 1/4" TRS inputs.

May 9th, 2011, 08:20 PM	#14
Andy Balla Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Asheville NC Posts: 182	Re: H4N peaks from 1-100 Exactly, Aaron...

May 9th, 2011, 08:23 PM	#15
Andy Balla Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Asheville NC Posts: 182	Re: H4N peaks from 1-100 Also, @ Chris, you can shut off the limiter. I keep mine turned off, and rely on the much better limiter on my mixer.