DR-100 & Drift at DVinfo.net

Tim Polster · April 27th, 2011, 09:06 AM

Hello,

I am looking at purchasing a portable recording device to be used with DSLRs as well as other video cameras.

I wanted to ask DR-100 users about how much audio drift they have seen with the Tascam DR-100 units?

My search has led me to the Tascam HD-P2 unit as well because it has the ability to sync to a video output from a camera. But this unit is larger and more than twice the price.

If the DR-100 unit does not have that much drift (only 12 min of record time with DSLRs) I was thinking buying it with the Oade mod to improve the preamps.

If the DR-100 does have a lot of drift then after purchasing Plural Eyes & the Oade mod I am around the price of the HD-P2 unit.

How much better, same or worse with the DR-100 with the Oade mod be than:

- In camera (EX-1 class of camera)
- Tascam HD-P2
- DR-100 without the Oade mod

Thanks for your input!

Jon Braeley · April 27th, 2011, 09:36 AM

I havent seen any drift using my DR-100 with a Canon 7d and a GH2. My longest interview segments are about 10 mins - but still fine.

Daniel Weber · April 27th, 2011, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Polster

Hello,

I am looking at purchasing a portable recording device to be used with DSLRs as well as other video cameras.

I wanted to ask DR-100 users about how much audio drift they have seen with the Tascam DR-100 units?

My search has led me to the Tascam HD-P2 unit as well because it has the ability to sync to a video output from a camera. But this unit is larger and more than twice the price.

If the DR-100 unit does not have that much drift (only 12 min of record time with DSLRs) I was thinking buying it with the Oade mod to improve the preamps.

If the DR-100 does have a lot of drift then after purchasing Plural Eyes & the Oade mod I am around the price of the HD-P2 unit.

How much better, same or worse with the DR-100 with the Oade mod be than:

- In camera (EX-1 class of camera)
- Tascam HD-P2
- DR-100 without the Oade mod

Thanks for your input!

Tim,

I have experience with the EX1 and the DR-100, though not with the mod you are talking about. I have not had any drift with the DR-100. I have with the Zoom H4n though.

I really like the audio on the DR-100, much better than the EX1. The DR-100 also has an internal backup battery for extended field recording times.

What does the mod that you referred to add to the DR-100 and how much does it cost?

Daniel Weber

Stan Harkleroad · April 27th, 2011, 08:19 PM

The Oade Brothers do a few different mods you can pick from that upgrade and replace inputs and/or circuitry in the recorder. You can go to oade.com to see what they do.

Tim,
It sounds like you're wanting to record separate audio and sync it with your video track, right? With short segments like yours the drift will probably be extremely little, if any. If you record segments of 20-30 minutes or higher you'll experience a bit more drift. Typically I get about 1/2 second of drift for an hour or more segment. I have recorded with different brands of camera and different recorders and that seems to be pretty consistent. For a 12 minute segment the drift will probably only be few frames which wouldn't even be noticeable to most people. The good thing is that with any digital device the drift will be constant and easily corrected. I use Vegas and it's a breeze to sync sources and adjust for any drift.

Tim Polster · April 28th, 2011, 06:35 AM

Thanks for your replies.

Sounds like I will be fine for DSLR work. Glad to hear your impression is better than the internal EX-1 recording which fine for a lot of uses.

I was thinking Plural Eyes for any drift correction. Does Vegas has the same type of correction built in?

Rick Reineke · April 29th, 2011, 08:12 AM

I am not aware of any sync plug-in that are normally included with Vegas.
I don't think 'Plural Eyes' will constantly adjust for drift, unless the file(s) were split-up into multible events.

Rick Reineke · April 29th, 2011, 08:14 AM

I am not aware of any sync plug-ins that are normally included with Vegas.
I don't think 'Plural Eyes' will constantly adjust for drift, unless the file(s) were split-up into multiple events.

Brian Luce · April 29th, 2011, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Reineke

I don't think 'Plural Eyes' will constantly adjust for drift, unless the file(s) were split-up into multiple events.

Can anyone confirm this? I was thinking of getting PE.

Chad Johnson · April 29th, 2011, 03:34 PM

The new Final Cut Pro will have a plural eyes type thing built in!

If you have an EX1 class camera, and only need 2 channels, then that's all you need. The EX1 has the best audio I've ever heard out of a camera. Drift won't be an issue unless you are trying to record music, and blend recordings from 2 different sources. Visually it won't be an issue, but almost immediately you'll hear phase issues. So always record all the audio used on one recorder (for music). I don't know if Oade would do a DR-100. If he doesn't, try Busman Audio. They do mods too, and better.

Tim Polster · April 29th, 2011, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Reineke

I am not aware of any sync plug-ins that are normally included with Vegas.
I don't think 'Plural Eyes' will constantly adjust for drift, unless the file(s) were split-up into multiple events.

I thought this was the purpose of Plural Eyes. Give it a reference track and it will adjust the main track to match the reference track.

Rick Reineke · April 30th, 2011, 09:40 AM

I don't < think > Plural Eyes' will constantly adjust for drift, unless the file(s) were split-up into multiple events.
I could be wrong on this, but I was told by a reliable source it won't time stretch, + or -, to compensate for drift. maybe someone with experience with PEs can clarify this or correct my misconception.

Evan Donn · April 30th, 2011, 03:41 PM

Pluraleyes won't adjust for drift, it just syncs the tracks at the start. I've been using it for several years now, at various times with an H4n, DR-100, or both, syncing with 5D source material and haven't had any drift problems with either that were the fault of the recorders. Early on there were some issues with the 5D's 30p frame rate vs. FCP's interpretation of audio files at 29.97, but the problem was specific to FCP's default project configuration and could be corrected easily - and it's largely irrelevant now that the DSLRs are all shooting at 29.97/23.976, also not relevant to the EX1.

Chad Johnson · April 30th, 2011, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Polster

I thought this was the purpose of Plural Eyes. Give it a reference track and it will adjust the main track to match the reference track.

You are thinking of VocALign. Check it out:

Tim Polster · April 30th, 2011, 09:49 PM

Thanks for the video Chad. Looks like a nice plugin.

I went to the Pural Eyes website and watched a how to video for Dual Eyes and "correct for drift" is a menu choice so it is made to fix drifting audio. Syncing is easy, drift correction is not. BTW, drifitng audio is not so related to framerate but moreso related to recording crystals and two different machines running at slightly different timings.

Steve House · May 1st, 2011, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan Harkleroad

...Typically I get about 1/2 second of drift for an hour or more segment. I have recorded with different brands of camera and different recorders and that seems to be pretty consistent. For a 12 minute segment the drift will probably only be few frames which wouldn't even be noticeable to most people. ...

Careful with using "most people" as your standards. For broadcast work +/- 0.5 frame (no more than 1/2 frame off for sound to either lead or lag picture) is a common limit. "A few frames", even a single full frame, is completely out-of-spec and unacceptable.

April 27th, 2011, 09:06 AM	#1
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	DR-100 & Drift Hello, I am looking at purchasing a portable recording device to be used with DSLRs as well as other video cameras. I wanted to ask DR-100 users about how much audio drift they have seen with the Tascam DR-100 units? My search has led me to the Tascam HD-P2 unit as well because it has the ability to sync to a video output from a camera. But this unit is larger and more than twice the price. If the DR-100 unit does not have that much drift (only 12 min of record time with DSLRs) I was thinking buying it with the Oade mod to improve the preamps. If the DR-100 does have a lot of drift then after purchasing Plural Eyes & the Oade mod I am around the price of the HD-P2 unit. How much better, same or worse with the DR-100 with the Oade mod be than: - In camera (EX-1 class of camera) - Tascam HD-P2 - DR-100 without the Oade mod Thanks for your input!

April 27th, 2011, 09:36 AM	#2
Jon Braeley Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 528	Re: DR-100 & Drift I havent seen any drift using my DR-100 with a Canon 7d and a GH2. My longest interview segments are about 10 mins - but still fine.

April 27th, 2011, 08:19 PM	#4
Stan Harkleroad Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Gautier, MS Posts: 175	Re: DR-100 & Drift The Oade Brothers do a few different mods you can pick from that upgrade and replace inputs and/or circuitry in the recorder. You can go to oade.com to see what they do. Tim, It sounds like you're wanting to record separate audio and sync it with your video track, right? With short segments like yours the drift will probably be extremely little, if any. If you record segments of 20-30 minutes or higher you'll experience a bit more drift. Typically I get about 1/2 second of drift for an hour or more segment. I have recorded with different brands of camera and different recorders and that seems to be pretty consistent. For a 12 minute segment the drift will probably only be few frames which wouldn't even be noticeable to most people. The good thing is that with any digital device the drift will be constant and easily corrected. I use Vegas and it's a breeze to sync sources and adjust for any drift.

April 28th, 2011, 06:35 AM	#5
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: DR-100 & Drift Thanks for your replies. Sounds like I will be fine for DSLR work. Glad to hear your impression is better than the internal EX-1 recording which fine for a lot of uses. I was thinking Plural Eyes for any drift correction. Does Vegas has the same type of correction built in?

April 29th, 2011, 08:12 AM	#6
Rick Reineke Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New York Posts: 2,039	Re: DR-100 & Drift I am not aware of any sync plug-in that are normally included with Vegas. I don't think 'Plural Eyes' will constantly adjust for drift, unless the file(s) were split-up into multible events.

April 29th, 2011, 08:14 AM	#7
Rick Reineke Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New York Posts: 2,039	Re: DR-100 & Drift I am not aware of any sync plug-ins that are normally included with Vegas. I don't think 'Plural Eyes' will constantly adjust for drift, unless the file(s) were split-up into multiple events.

April 29th, 2011, 03:34 PM	#9
Chad Johnson Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Arcata, Ca Posts: 750	Re: DR-100 & Drift The new Final Cut Pro will have a plural eyes type thing built in! If you have an EX1 class camera, and only need 2 channels, then that's all you need. The EX1 has the best audio I've ever heard out of a camera. Drift won't be an issue unless you are trying to record music, and blend recordings from 2 different sources. Visually it won't be an issue, but almost immediately you'll hear phase issues. So always record all the audio used on one recorder (for music). I don't know if Oade would do a DR-100. If he doesn't, try Busman Audio. They do mods too, and better. __________________ My Work: http://www.youtube.com/ChadWork1 Sony FS5 :: Panasonic GH4 :: Sony PMW-EX1 :: FCPx :: AT4053b :: Rode NTG-3,

April 30th, 2011, 09:40 AM	#11
Rick Reineke Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New York Posts: 2,039	Re: DR-100 & Drift I don't < think > Plural Eyes' will constantly adjust for drift, unless the file(s) were split-up into multiple events. I could be wrong on this, but I was told by a reliable source it won't time stretch, + or -, to compensate for drift. maybe someone with experience with PEs can clarify this or correct my misconception.

April 30th, 2011, 03:41 PM	#12
Evan Donn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 795	Re: DR-100 & Drift Pluraleyes won't adjust for drift, it just syncs the tracks at the start. I've been using it for several years now, at various times with an H4n, DR-100, or both, syncing with 5D source material and haven't had any drift problems with either that were the fault of the recorders. Early on there were some issues with the 5D's 30p frame rate vs. FCP's interpretation of audio files at 29.97, but the problem was specific to FCP's default project configuration and could be corrected easily - and it's largely irrelevant now that the DSLRs are all shooting at 29.97/23.976, also not relevant to the EX1. __________________ My latest short documentary: "Four Pauls: Bring the Hat Back!"

April 30th, 2011, 09:49 PM	#14
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Re: DR-100 & Drift Thanks for the video Chad. Looks like a nice plugin. I went to the Pural Eyes website and watched a how to video for Dual Eyes and "correct for drift" is a menu choice so it is made to fix drifting audio. Syncing is easy, drift correction is not. BTW, drifitng audio is not so related to framerate but moreso related to recording crystals and two different machines running at slightly different timings.