Zoom H2 users... at DVinfo.net

Stephen J. Williams · January 27th, 2011, 06:19 PM

Do you guys have problem's synching in post? it seems no matter how "on" I initially have it. It will slip to about 5 or 6 frames as time progress's. I have a sony recorder as well where this doesn't happen. Am I missing something?

Steve

Kelly Huffaker · January 28th, 2011, 12:42 AM

Do you have PluralEyes?

Tom Hardwick · January 28th, 2011, 02:31 AM

My Zoom is useless at holding sync, yet my three MiniDisc recorders are spot on over the hour. It may well be an excellent little audio recorder, but it's sync is known to fluctuate pretty wildly.

Philip Howells · January 28th, 2011, 02:58 AM

Tom is absolutely right - the only two things I'd add are "all" zooms at holding sync .... and presumably you're recording at the sampling rate your NLE needs. Zooms default to 44,100 I think whereas Avid asks for 48,000.

Stephen J. Williams · January 28th, 2011, 10:53 AM

No Kelly, Unfortunately I don't have pluraleyes. Although I might breakdown and get it one day.

Thanks guys for the additional info... I guess I'll just have to deal with it for the time being.

Steve

Corey Graham · January 28th, 2011, 11:36 AM

It's an audio drift issue . . . the audio syncs up at the beginning, but progressively goes out of sync. Every device will have a different drift rate (while some have none at all), and there seems to be a lot of factors that can play into why it happens.

I know there's another thread about audio drift somewhere here. You basically stretch the audio track a small amount. It's a lot of trial and error.

David Grinnell · January 28th, 2011, 05:17 PM

This is my solution in Vegas
1. I pull the footage and the audio from my digital voice recorders and place them on the time line

2. I trim the audio file to only what I need, like say if I started it before the camera was rolling I don’t have any use for that so it’s gone.

3. Sync up the audio in the first few frames

4. Then pick a point towards the end of the video, I use the announcement of the bride and groom, and cut the video right on one of the words( you can pull it back out later)

5. Do the exact same thing for the audio file, same word; I use the wave form to help cut… (it doesn’t really matter that you use a word, just that you are ending on the same sound as the video track.)

6. Move the cursor to the end of the video and note how long the video is, like 1:01:09;05

7. Then right click on the audio in the timeline, change the” time stretch/ pitch shift” from none to elastique, check the box that says lock to stretch (Preserves the pitch) and type in the exact length that you got from the video in the new length box.

Takes 2 mins once you have all the steps down, way better than fumbling around for hours like I did the first time

Dana Salsbury · July 14th, 2011, 11:43 PM

Interesting, David. I do all those steps except for on the last one I check to see if the Zoom clip is shorter or longer. If shorter I right click on the clip and select 'Speed'. Then I try 99.99. If it's still shorter I go 99.98. I just keep tweaking until it matches up.

Kevin Hill · July 16th, 2011, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Grinnell

This is my solution in Vegas
1. I pull the footage and the audio from my digital voice recorders and place them on the time line

2. I trim the audio file to only what I need, like say if I started it before the camera was rolling I don’t have any use for that so it’s gone.

3. Sync up the audio in the first few frames

4. Then pick a point towards the end of the video, I use the announcement of the bride and groom, and cut the video right on one of the words( you can pull it back out later)

5. Do the exact same thing for the audio file, same word; I use the wave form to help cut… (it doesn’t really matter that you use a word, just that you are ending on the same sound as the video track.)

6. Move the cursor to the end of the video and note how long the video is, like 1:01:09;05

7. Then right click on the audio in the timeline, change the” time stretch/ pitch shift” from none to elastique, check the box that says lock to stretch (Preserves the pitch) and type in the exact length that you got from the video in the new length box.

Takes 2 mins once you have all the steps down, way better than fumbling around for hours like I did the first time

That's a great tip, David! I use Tascam recorders, and they have the same drift problem.

Joshua Heater · July 17th, 2011, 02:40 PM

I have zoom h4 and zoom h2...make sure you change sampling rate to match up. On mine I have zoom h4 stamina off and wave 48kHz/24 bit...same for zoom h2: menu, rec mode, 48/24.

Dana Salsbury · July 17th, 2011, 08:04 PM

While the sampling rate shouldn't affect the speed, the default on the H2 is 44 instead of 48, so it's easy to miss that and record at a lower quality.

Anthony McErlean · August 1st, 2011, 10:23 AM

So, do all the Zooms audio drift?
I was thinking of getting a Zoom to replace my minidisc.

Pete Cofrancesco · August 1st, 2011, 02:55 PM

H2 and H4 drift but the H4N doesn't. that's why I upgraded. well worth the extra money to eliminate the drift issue.

Anthony McErlean · August 1st, 2011, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

H2 and H4 drift but the H4N doesn't. that's why I upgraded. well worth the extra money to eliminate the drift issue.

Thats good to know Pete, thanks.

Stan Harkleroad · August 1st, 2011, 07:07 PM

I've experienced this with every digital recorder I've used: Mini Disc, iRiver H120/320, Zoom H2, Sony PCM-D50, Tascam DR-2d.

Even though you're recording the same thing the internal mechanisms of different devices may move at a slightly different speed. Usually the difference is not drastic. Usually for a 1 to 1 1/2 hour segment the audio source I use might drift about 1/2 second by the end. With digital sources the drift is constant and easy to fix.

In Sony Vegas line the new track up with your camera's audio track and use some reference point at the beginning to sync them. A hand clap or sharp, quick noise works well. Sometimes it might take a little effort to get this part down just right. I usually pan each track to a different channel and use headphones so I can hear each clearly and know they are in sync.

Then go to the end of the tracks and find a noticeable spot at the end. I use a little trick I came up with of finding my reference spot at the end and holding down shift and using the arrow key until I get to the same point in the other audio track. This give me a loop region that is exactly the space of the drift.

Then drag that loop region to the end of your new track, hover your mouse at the end of the track, and hold down the CTRL key. You'll see the ~ symbol appear. Drag the track left or right the stretch or shrink using the loop region as reference and it should be spot on after that.

There are other ways of syncing two audio tracks but using Vegas and the method I described I'm able to sync multiple tracks pretty quickly and without trouble.

There are other programs like Wavelab or Adobe Audition that will change the length of a file for you but it involves calculating the difference and inputting figures to change the length.

January 27th, 2011, 06:19 PM	#1
Stephen J. Williams Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 768	Zoom H2 users... Do you guys have problem's synching in post? it seems no matter how "on" I initially have it. It will slip to about 5 or 6 frames as time progress's. I have a sony recorder as well where this doesn't happen. Am I missing something? Steve

July 14th, 2011, 11:43 PM	#8
Dana Salsbury Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 859	Re: Zoom H2 users... Interesting, David. I do all those steps except for on the last one I check to see if the Zoom clip is shorter or longer. If shorter I right click on the clip and select 'Speed'. Then I try 99.99. If it's still shorter I go 99.98. I just keep tweaking until it matches up. __________________ www.LegacyHDV.com Weddings \| Corporate \| HMC150s \| FCPX \| Encore \| Lion

July 17th, 2011, 02:40 PM	#10
Joshua Heater Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Saint Louis, MO Posts: 30	Re: Zoom H2 users... I have zoom h4 and zoom h2...make sure you change sampling rate to match up. On mine I have zoom h4 stamina off and wave 48kHz/24 bit...same for zoom h2: menu, rec mode, 48/24.

July 17th, 2011, 08:04 PM	#11
Dana Salsbury Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 859	Re: Zoom H2 users... While the sampling rate shouldn't affect the speed, the default on the H2 is 44 instead of 48, so it's easy to miss that and record at a lower quality. __________________ www.LegacyHDV.com Weddings \| Corporate \| HMC150s \| FCPX \| Encore \| Lion

August 1st, 2011, 10:23 AM	#12
Anthony McErlean Trustee Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 1,081	Re: Zoom H2 users... So, do all the Zooms audio drift? I was thinking of getting a Zoom to replace my minidisc.

January 28th, 2011, 12:42 AM	#2
Kelly Huffaker Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Pasco Washington Posts: 128	Do you have PluralEyes?

January 28th, 2011, 02:31 AM	#3
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	My Zoom is useless at holding sync, yet my three MiniDisc recorders are spot on over the hour. It may well be an excellent little audio recorder, but it's sync is known to fluctuate pretty wildly.

January 28th, 2011, 02:58 AM	#4
Philip Howells Trustee Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 1,212	Tom is absolutely right - the only two things I'd add are "all" zooms at holding sync .... and presumably you're recording at the sampling rate your NLE needs. Zooms default to 44,100 I think whereas Avid asks for 48,000.

January 28th, 2011, 10:53 AM	#5
Stephen J. Williams Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 768	No Kelly, Unfortunately I don't have pluraleyes. Although I might breakdown and get it one day. Thanks guys for the additional info... I guess I'll just have to deal with it for the time being. Steve

January 28th, 2011, 11:36 AM	#6
Corey Graham Major Player Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Erie, PA Posts: 390	It's an audio drift issue . . . the audio syncs up at the beginning, but progressively goes out of sync. Every device will have a different drift rate (while some have none at all), and there seems to be a lot of factors that can play into why it happens. I know there's another thread about audio drift somewhere here. You basically stretch the audio track a small amount. It's a lot of trial and error.

January 28th, 2011, 05:17 PM	#7
David Grinnell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Owensboro, ky Posts: 96	This is my solution in Vegas 1. I pull the footage and the audio from my digital voice recorders and place them on the time line 2. I trim the audio file to only what I need, like say if I started it before the camera was rolling I don’t have any use for that so it’s gone. 3. Sync up the audio in the first few frames 4. Then pick a point towards the end of the video, I use the announcement of the bride and groom, and cut the video right on one of the words( you can pull it back out later) 5. Do the exact same thing for the audio file, same word; I use the wave form to help cut… (it doesn’t really matter that you use a word, just that you are ending on the same sound as the video track.) 6. Move the cursor to the end of the video and note how long the video is, like 1:01:09;05 7. Then right click on the audio in the timeline, change the” time stretch/ pitch shift” from none to elastique, check the box that says lock to stretch (Preserves the pitch) and type in the exact length that you got from the video in the new length box. Takes 2 mins once you have all the steps down, way better than fumbling around for hours like I did the first time

August 1st, 2011, 02:55 PM	#13
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Re: Zoom H2 users... H2 and H4 drift but the H4N doesn't. that's why I upgraded. well worth the extra money to eliminate the drift issue.

August 1st, 2011, 07:07 PM	#15
Stan Harkleroad Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Gautier, MS Posts: 175	Re: Zoom H2 users... I've experienced this with every digital recorder I've used: Mini Disc, iRiver H120/320, Zoom H2, Sony PCM-D50, Tascam DR-2d. Even though you're recording the same thing the internal mechanisms of different devices may move at a slightly different speed. Usually the difference is not drastic. Usually for a 1 to 1 1/2 hour segment the audio source I use might drift about 1/2 second by the end. With digital sources the drift is constant and easy to fix. In Sony Vegas line the new track up with your camera's audio track and use some reference point at the beginning to sync them. A hand clap or sharp, quick noise works well. Sometimes it might take a little effort to get this part down just right. I usually pan each track to a different channel and use headphones so I can hear each clearly and know they are in sync. Then go to the end of the tracks and find a noticeable spot at the end. I use a little trick I came up with of finding my reference spot at the end and holding down shift and using the arrow key until I get to the same point in the other audio track. This give me a loop region that is exactly the space of the drift. Then drag that loop region to the end of your new track, hover your mouse at the end of the track, and hold down the CTRL key. You'll see the ~ symbol appear. Drag the track left or right the stretch or shrink using the loop region as reference and it should be spot on after that. There are other ways of syncing two audio tracks but using Vegas and the method I described I'm able to sync multiple tracks pretty quickly and without trouble. There are other programs like Wavelab or Adobe Audition that will change the length of a file for you but it involves calculating the difference and inputting figures to change the length.