Zoom H2 users...

Anthony McErlean · August 2nd, 2011, 02:37 AM

Thanks Stan for that information,
I use Edius BTW.

Thanks again.

Steve House · August 2nd, 2011, 05:34 AM

A clapper slate at both ends of the take makes it easier adjust length. Clap a slate at the start as usual plus clap a tail-slate at the end. Line up the visual clap and the waveform spike at the start of the take, move to the end, and line up the tail-slate spike by dragging it.

Jay Massengill · August 2nd, 2011, 07:48 AM

A tail slate definitely makes it easier, but my older H4 exhibits variable drift. So even if you've lined up both slates properly, looking closely at different points in the middle of very long takes the audio may be a little ahead or a little behind or right on the money. Some smaller cuts during the program are usually required to keep things as close as possible throughout the whole run.

My newer H4n does much better. It's not off by much and seems to be consistent and easier to adjust for.

Steve House · August 2nd, 2011, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Massengill

A tail slate definitely makes it easier, but my older H4 exhibits variable drift. So even if you've lined up both slates properly, looking closely at different points in the middle of very long takes the audio may be a little ahead or a little behind or right on the money. Some smaller cuts during the program are usually required to keep things as close as possible throughout the whole run.

My newer H4n does much better. It's not off by much and seems to be consistent and easier to adjust for.

Definitely. The right way to do it is to use pro gear such as SD recorders that have a very accurate timebase to begin with or even better, cameras with genlock input and audio recorders with wordclock input plus the necessary outboard gear like Lockit boxes to sync them all together to a common timebase.

Stan Harkleroad · August 2nd, 2011, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Massengill

A tail slate definitely makes it easier, but my older H4 exhibits variable drift. So even if you've lined up both slates properly, looking closely at different points in the middle of very long takes the audio may be a little ahead or a little behind or right on the money. Some smaller cuts during the program are usually required to keep things as close as possible throughout the whole run.

My newer H4n does much better. It's not off by much and seems to be consistent and easier to adjust for.

Any digital device shouldn't do that. Variable drift is a trait of analog recorders. Something is not right if the drift isn't constant.

Greg Miller · August 3rd, 2011, 05:38 AM

In theory, variable drift simply means that the time base isn't perfectly stable. And nothing is *perfectly* stable... although an atomic standard comes reasonably close. ;-)

Whether or not the variable drift is noticeable is another question. Even a crystal timebase is subject to some drift, based on temperature. (Most broadcast transmitters, for example, have their crystal timebase inside a temperature controlled oven, to improve the frequency accuracy and stability.) So if a given recorder has an inexpensive crystal at ambient temperature, or, worse yet, a lower cost ceramic resonator, it can potentially drift around over a long period of time.

Jay Massengill · August 3rd, 2011, 08:40 AM

Plus we sometimes forget in this discussion we're always talking about TWO timebases, not just the one in the audio recorder but also the one in whatever we're matching it to.

I'm also referring to 90 minute live recordings where there has been minimal warmup time for the equipment before recording begins, and the air conditioner cycling off and on many times during that period, with very noticeable differences in the air temperature during these cycles.

Rick Reineke · August 3rd, 2011, 10:08 AM

Even two (or more) cameras of the same make and model will drift some over time w/o being 'gen-locked'. For continuous multi-camera A/V recording, it's best to use a tri-sync system... if it's in the budget.
For feature film type work, where there are many short scenes and takes, drift is usually not an issue. Even with the notoriously flaky RED camera and an H2.

August 2nd, 2011, 02:37 AM	#16
Anthony McErlean Trustee Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Northern Ireland Posts: 1,082	Re: Zoom H2 users... Thanks Stan for that information, I use Edius BTW. Thanks again.

August 2nd, 2011, 05:34 AM	#17
Steve House Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,742	Re: Zoom H2 users... A clapper slate at both ends of the take makes it easier adjust length. Clap a slate at the start as usual plus clap a tail-slate at the end. Line up the visual clap and the waveform spike at the start of the take, move to the end, and line up the tail-slate spike by dragging it. __________________ Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams! Last edited by Steve House; August 2nd, 2011 at 07:28 AM.

August 2nd, 2011, 07:48 AM	#18
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	Re: Zoom H2 users... A tail slate definitely makes it easier, but my older H4 exhibits variable drift. So even if you've lined up both slates properly, looking closely at different points in the middle of very long takes the audio may be a little ahead or a little behind or right on the money. Some smaller cuts during the program are usually required to keep things as close as possible throughout the whole run. My newer H4n does much better. It's not off by much and seems to be consistent and easier to adjust for.

August 3rd, 2011, 05:38 AM	#21
Greg Miller Trustee Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,792	Re: Zoom H2 users... In theory, variable drift simply means that the time base isn't perfectly stable. And nothing is perfectly stable... although an atomic standard comes reasonably close. ;-) Whether or not the variable drift is noticeable is another question. Even a crystal timebase is subject to some drift, based on temperature. (Most broadcast transmitters, for example, have their crystal timebase inside a temperature controlled oven, to improve the frequency accuracy and stability.) So if a given recorder has an inexpensive crystal at ambient temperature, or, worse yet, a lower cost ceramic resonator, it can potentially drift around over a long period of time.

August 3rd, 2011, 08:40 AM	#22
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	Re: Zoom H2 users... Plus we sometimes forget in this discussion we're always talking about TWO timebases, not just the one in the audio recorder but also the one in whatever we're matching it to. I'm also referring to 90 minute live recordings where there has been minimal warmup time for the equipment before recording begins, and the air conditioner cycling off and on many times during that period, with very noticeable differences in the air temperature during these cycles.

August 3rd, 2011, 10:08 AM	#23
Rick Reineke Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New York Posts: 2,039	Re: Zoom H2 users... Even two (or more) cameras of the same make and model will drift some over time w/o being 'gen-locked'. For continuous multi-camera A/V recording, it's best to use a tri-sync system... if it's in the budget. For feature film type work, where there are many short scenes and takes, drift is usually not an issue. Even with the notoriously flaky RED camera and an H2.