Audio Technica AT897 with small consumer grade low end DVR

[Syed Junaid]

It is clip which isn’t in English recorded on my set up:

YouTube - High Sensitivity LFC No 80Hz.wmv

Then I clean it through iZotope RX Adance and made its Video through image in “.rm” format by Sony Vegas Pro 10:

YouTube - High Sensitivity LFC No 80Hz 2x Denosing 17.08 Gain

Now my last question is that can split microphone output wire into “Y” formation, one to supply input to PA system other to my mini Sony DVR. Is it possible without getting any serious problem or will there be any compromise in quality or gain etc.?

[Steve House]

Passively splitting a mic to two inputs with a simple "Y" cable is not a good idea. It changes the loading on the mic and puts the two device inputs in parallel with each other. There's no predicting what the effect will be but it's rarely good - the mic's tone changes and you run a big risk of introducing ground loops, hum ,etc. You can get a true transformer-based mic splitter for very little expense and that's the right way to go, isolating the two devices from one another. See SP1X2 AND SP1X3 MIC SPLITTERS - Catalog - Whirlwind and http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/351512-REG/Whirlwind_SP1X2_SP1X2_1x2_Mic.html

[Jay Massengill]

If the shotgun mic is still 8 feet from the subject as in your original post, you will not be successful in feeding this to a PA system that covers the mic's location. It will only cause feedback with no actual reinforcement of the subject. You could feed it to a remotely located PA system with loudspeakers that are far removed from the mic's location, but I don't think that was your intention.
The difference in signal levels between getting a good recording and sending the exact necessary level to a PA that covers the mic's location is also dramatically different and often very touchy, even with a good vocal mic fairly close to the subject.
A splitter, while much better than a Y cable, still won't give you any additional gain boosting of the mic or differential control of the two output signals.
I suggest a small mixer to gain better control of the two signal paths, and even then you can't use a shotgun mic 8 feet from the subject for a PA system that covers the mic's location, it simply won't work.

[Syed Junaid]

Originally Posted by Steve House

Passively splitting a mic to two inputs with a simple "Y" cable is not a good idea. It changes the loading on the mic and puts the two device inputs in parallel with each other. There's no predicting what the effect will be but it's rarely good - the mic's tone changes and you run a big risk of introducing ground loops, hum ,etc.

What is the meaning of passively splitting?

Originally Posted by Steve House

You can get a true transformer-based mic splitter for very little expense and that's the right way to go, isolating the two devices from one another. See SP1X2 AND SP1X3 MIC SPLITTERS - Catalog - Whirlwind and Whirlwind SP1X2 - 1x2 Mic Splitter SP1X2 B&H Photo Video

I can purchase small samson mixer, I'll let you know the shortly the model #, Do you think mix can sloving my splitting problem?

[Greg Miller]

Syed, I am a bit surprised to see you posting here. Most of the questions you are asking here, you have already asked on another forum, and they have been answered there.

Originally Posted by Syed Junaid

I can purchase small samson mixer, I'll let you know the shortly the model #, Do you think mix can sloving my splitting problem?

Two of us in the other forum suggested you try a small mixer. That will be a good way to split the signal from your mic, and feed it to the PA system and also to your recorder. As I mentioned in the other forum, your recorder does not have a line level input (only a mic level input), nor does it have a recording level meter or a full-range recording level control. So even if you use a mixer, you will need an attenuator to lower the signal level from the mixer going to the recorder. And you will need to determine the size of that attenuator experimentally, since the Sony recorder has no meter. It would be easy, but time consuming, for someone knowledgeable to do that; for a novice like you it may be rather difficult. IMHO, that Sony recorder is your biggest enemy.

At any rate, I am happy to see that the answers you are getting here are pretty much the same as the answers you got in the other forum. (For example about the audio samples you posted, about passive splitting of your mic signal, about hiss reduction, etc.) Hopefully this will start to make sense soon and you will be able to accept all this information.

You have said that you are a novice, and it's good that you are asking questions! It's unfortunate that you can't find someone locally to help you with this. (By the way, where are you?) When I first became interested in audio I tried to learn a lot by reading, but the learning process was very slow. As you see, there are many inter-related issues, and asking a question about one of them will lead to many more questions. For myself, at least, I found that having someone who could sit down, draw a few pictures, and actually demonstrate things in person, made the learning process a lot faster.

Meanwhile, Good luck!

[Greg Miller]

Originally Posted by Jay Massengill

If the shotgun mic is still 8 feet from the subject as in your original post,

Excuse me for butting in, but I believe his original post said the mic was 8" from the subject... inches, not feet. That would be a bit less troublesome.

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by Syed Junaid

What is the meaning of passively splitting?

Just wiring the two inputs to the mic in parallel with each other without any active components, transformers, etc to isolate them from possibly interacting with each other

I can purchase small samson mixer, I'll let you know the shortly the model #, Do you think mix can sloving my splitting problem?

If the mixer has two independent sets of outputs, then yes it will. But if there's only one set of outputs, you still have the issue of the two inputs you need to send the signal to getting wired togther in parallel with each other. My SD mixer has several sets of outputs that are all isolated from one another with transformers - it would work just fine for what you need. Whether your Samson will is anybody's guess without knowing whixh mixer you're considering in order to look up its specs.

[Jay Massengill]

Yes I misread 8 feet instead of 8 inches. Certainly that will make an improvement. However depending on the room acoustics, the PA system and how the loudspeakers are placed, a shotgun mic (even one that's relatively smooth like the AT897) can have such unusual frequency peaks that feedback will still be more of a problem than with a cardioid vocal mic.

[Greg Miller]

Sure, a few unpredictable hard-surface reflections and everything will get very difficult.

I think he'd be better keeping the recording system entirely separate from the PA system. Certainly, trying a passive split between a battery mic, an unbalanced recorder, and a (probably) balanced PA system is just asking for problems.

It's interesting, because in one of Syed's original posts, he says yes, there is a PA system, but he does not want to record from it... he wants to stay separate. But then later he says he wants to use a single mic and split it for recording and PA. I think he is floundering around and doesn't have a clear sense of direction right now.

If the PA people use a good close-work PA mic for the talent, they can hopefully keep their gain and feedback under control. Then if Syed really wants to use a shotgun 8" away, he can do that, without causing any potential PA problems. He will have enough trouble recording, as it is, given that his recorder has no level meter and no gain control (just a "mic sensitivity" switch).

There's a lot to be said for KISS.

[Syed Junaid]

I was busy, I was changing my home. With your help I almost done my project, thank you Greg, Steve, Jay .et al for all help and support.

Originally Posted by Greg Miller

I think he'd be better keeping the recording system entirely separate from the PA system. Certainly, trying a passive split between a battery mic, an unbalanced recorder, and a (probably) balanced PA system is just asking for problems.

It's interesting, because in one of Syed's original posts, he says yes, there is a PA system, but he does not want to record from it... he wants to stay separate. But then later he says he wants to use a single mic and split it for recording and PA. I think he is floundering around and doesn't have a clear sense of direction right now.

As I told you before I will not use PA system i.e. it is not my primary concern to feed both (PA system and my recorder) through my microphone. I was just asking if I found that type of situation, which way I would go. But now I found that there are a lot of subtle things which I need to learn to handle that type of dual feeding. Mostly I’m anticipating there is a lavaliere available for PA, and I can use my mic upon podium or on stand. So right now I can leave it.

Now perhaps I have last four questions:

1. How can I clean my audio effectively?
2. How can I increase the gain of my audio via software?
3. How to compress my resultant audio or video?
4. Is there any consideration w.r.t Youtubing or Podcasting it?

1. How can I clean my audio effectively?

My audio have 400 Hz hum and room noise. This is before the cleaning:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachme...1&d=1299927154

I removed the hum as:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachme...1&d=1299927154

Base freq= 462.01 Hz
Filter Q = 163.72
Num Harmonics = 1
Harmonic slope = 0
Harmonic gain = -80dB


Then I cleaned the ambient noise as:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachme...1&d=1299927154

Tonal & Broadband Threshold = 0.2 dB
Tonal & Broadband Reduction = 40 dB
Musical Nosie Suppr. = 10
Residual Whitening = 0

I used this preset two times, and got these results:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachme...1&d=1299927154

Greg can you tell me how you cleaned my clip. My resultant sound is relatively robotic especially for more distant sounds. Please help me. And what is called distortion, as you told me that my edited sound is much distorted, I think my original edited sound, and consequently its video isn't much distorted as you can hear:

Audio: https://tqzvbg.blu.livefilestore.com...ownload&psid=1,

Video or:
https://tqzvbg.blu.livefilestore.com...ownload&psid=1

But YouTubed video is slightly distorted:
YouTube - High Sensitivity LFC No 80Hz 2x Denosing 17.08 Gain *

How can I clean my audio effectively?*

2. How can I increase the gain?*

Greg as I told you I was 8" away and I think I was talking in normal loudness; however the gain of my recording is low.
*
The gain of my recoded file is b/w -10 dB to -3 dB, while the file format is .mp3 and file size is 1.19 MB for 52sec. This is the file: https://tqzvbg.blu.livefilestore.com...ownload&psid=1

Screen shot of iZotope:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachme...1&d=1299927154


But when I tried to increase the gain from -6dB to +17.08 dB, in comparison to BBC podcast, iZoptope created the wave file from my mp3 and file size is 17.5 MB for 52sec. This is the file:
https://tqzvbg.blu.livefilestore.com...ownload&psid=1

How can and how much should I increase the gain? Which is appropriate for YouTube? Or for podcast?

3. How to compress my resultant audio or video?

And other problem is that the audio file size is too big (1.19 MB vs. 17.5 MB for 52sec), how can I compress it. when I tried to compress the above mentioned 17.5 MB audio file back to mp3, it was sounding me weird, Here is the file:
https://tqzvbg.blu.livefilestore.com...ownload&psid=1

How can I compress it without damaging my sound? Do I need a software compressor?

4. Is there any consideration w.r.t Youtubing or Podcasting it?

Consequently when I made the video using image and edited wav file (17 MB) through Sony Vegas Pro 10. It gives me lots of "Render As" options. I rendered it in three different formats:

189 MB .avi format (Good in quality)
16.9 MB real player format (.rm) (Good in quality)
2.47 MB .wmv format (ruined my voice)

Also when I uploaded them on YouTube, the audio quality was slightly decreased.

Then what is the most appropriate format in which I should render it? With respect to Youtubing or Podcasting.

[Greg Miller]

Syed:

1.) I don't remember what I did to clean your file. That was over a month ago. I could have told you at the time but I have forgotten. I'm really not interested in doing it again.

2.) What program are you using for all your attempts?

3.) You are trying to correct for many problems: incorrect levels, noise, distortion. Many of these are caused by using the wrong recorder. You are just wasting a huge amount of time by doing this.

Besides, many of the above links do not work when I click them.

We have a saying: "You can't make a silk purse out of a cow's ear." In other words, if you start with a tough and ugly piece of leather, you cannot turn it into something smooth and beautiful. I think that this largely applies to your situation.

However, please answer the above question and perhaps we can have a better outcome.

[Syed Junaid]

Originally Posted by Greg Miller

2.) What program are you using for all your attempts?

I'm using:

iZotope RX Advanced (v. 1.30.768) for Cleaning
Sony Vegas Pro 10.0c for video making

Originally Posted by Greg Miller

3.) You are trying to correct for many problems: incorrect levels, noise, distortion. Many of these are caused by using the wrong recorder. You are just wasting a huge amount of time by doing this.

Besides, many of the above links do not work when I click them.

We have a saying: "You can't make a silk purse out of a cow's ear." In other words, if you start with a tough and ugly piece of leather, you cannot turn it into something smooth and beautiful. I think that this largely applies to your situation.

However, please answer the above question and perhaps we can have a better outcome.

I'm understanding my situation and as soon as I can I'll buy some prosumer equipment, as you guys suggested me.

But unfortunately for first few projects I have to relay on this system. And I want to make it load and clean, in some acceptable extant.

I'm exporting my iZoptope presets which I used to clean my audio, you may check them:

Denoiser, Hum Removal Presets:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachme...1&d=1300881703


And I increase the gain through iZotope "Gain" process from -6dB to +17.08 dB. But I found unacceptable increase of size of wav file.

As you told me the audio was cleaned too much, and have great distortion, Do you think the lowering of these settings can assist me?

But the size of wav file is still an issue, I don't have any solution.

[Rick Reineke]

"The size of wav file is still an issue, I don't have any solution"
> The size of .wav file should NOT be an issue unless your HD(s) are full. It will be encoded to the proper format (if needed) when the project is rendered for DVD or other formats.
By default, Vegas creates a PCM audio proxy file anyway when lossy file types are added to the timeline.