challenging audio location at DVinfo.net

Philip Fass · August 30th, 2010, 08:04 AM

I need to shoot a walk-and-talk interview with someone on the main floor of an old library. If you look at the first two pictures on this page, you'll see the problem.

Tour

The main floor and dome are the bottom and top of the same space, and the reverb is horrible.

The interviewee and exhibits needs to be on-camera at various times in the same shot.

I can attach a lav as close to her mouth as possible, but is there anything else I can do to tame the echo?

Dan Brockett · August 30th, 2010, 08:22 AM

If you were shooting a static shot, you could build a small sound treated area around the talent with sound blankets, tables turned on end, etc. just out of frame. But for a walk and talk, I think you are stuck with just using a lav, what else could be done? It is a large space.

Dan

Philip Fass · August 30th, 2010, 08:32 AM

I read something positive about this plug-in, but I haven't tried it yet:

De-Verb: Sound Performance Lab

I guess I"ll do a test shoot and see how bad it is.

Richard Crowley · August 30th, 2010, 03:41 PM

The most effective thing you can do is increase the direct-to-ambient sound level ratio while recording. One good way is to use a "headset" mic which has an almost invisible "wand" over the ear and along one cheek. You see more and more people using this type of microphone on TV. It is much more effective than a traditional lav for maximizing the speech and minimizing the ambient noise levels. Do not assume that you can "fix it in post" unless you have done th experiment in the location and successfully reduced the ambient with your software tools.

Bill Davis · August 30th, 2010, 04:51 PM

Agree with the close-mic suggestions.

Check and see if someone in your area rents the Countryman E6 or the Countryman Isomax. Either will greatly increase the signal to noise ratio between the speech and any reverberant secondary sounds.

Oh, and coach the talent to remain relatively close together and talk quietly - like in a library. This is not the time for political speech projection!

Good luck

Jim Andrada · August 30th, 2010, 08:26 PM

De-Verb is really intended for cleaning up individual instrument or drum tracks (ie crisping up a bass line by reducing the reverb until you get separation between the notes - think mud removal!)

Not sure if it would be up to the challenge of something like this or not. It wouldn't hurt to try it but I wouldn't get my hopes up too much.

Tracy Foust · September 1st, 2010, 02:21 PM

The Countryman E6 mic.

Martin Catt · September 1st, 2010, 02:35 PM

Mic them as close as possible, one mic for each if possible.

One thing that might help, but looks incredibly stupid during the shoot, is to have a pair of assistants right behind the camera carrying a padded moving blanket draped over a pole, held up high. The blanket kills a lot of the echo. The drawbacks are that it's another item to coordinate, and you have to be careful about seeing it reflected in shiny surfaces or throwing a shadow.

Make sure everybody (you, your assistants, and the talent) wear SOFT shoes, as the sound of footfalls will echo horribly, probably louder than their voices. You're (probably) not going to be shooting their feet, so sneakers or athletic shoes are fine. Hard soles or heels are definitely out.

Also, be careful about loose change or keys in their pockets.

Martin

Philip Fass · September 2nd, 2010, 04:23 AM

I already have a very good wired lav (Sanken COS-11).

I haven't found this product, but don't see why it couldn't exist: A headset mic assembly without the microphone itself. Just attach your own lav.

Anyone seen something like it?

Allan Black · September 2nd, 2010, 06:24 AM

Nice looking library Phil. I'd just lav both up as normal and respectfully request they don't mumble.

A good dose of reverb is necessary to add to the atmosphere and it'll change as they move through each section of the building .. it should sound great.

Just as important is .. where are they going to walk and talk without running into a wall or losing you behind a bookshelf. Do it in sections and dry run 3 QandA before each take. Shoot your relevant cutaways right after each take while they figure out the next bit. Oh but you knew that :)

Cheers.

Rick Reineke · September 2nd, 2010, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip Fass

I already have a very good wired lav (Sanken COS-11).

I haven't found this product, but don't see why it couldn't exist: A headset mic assembly without the microphone itself. Just attach your own lav.

Anyone seen something like it?

Sennheiser NB 2.
I bought one a number of years ago for an exercise-type show, I believe they're still available.
Not as low-profile as an E6 or DPA, but i'll work.

Philip Fass · September 2nd, 2010, 09:32 AM

Excellent! Thank you.

Chad Johnson · September 3rd, 2010, 06:20 PM

Yes close mic with a lav, but keep in mind that it is just a big space. It's OK to have the audio reflect (no pun intended) accurately what the space is. As long as you can understand the subject it's not going to be a big deal. If I were going to ADR a scene in that space I would actually add big room reverb to make it seem realistic.

Richard Crowley · September 3rd, 2010, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad Johnson

Yes close mic with a lav, but keep in mind that it is just a big space. It's OK to have the audio reflect (no pun intended) accurately what the space is. As long as you can understand the subject it's not going to be a big deal. If I were going to ADR a scene in that space I would actually add big room reverb to make it seem realistic.

Yes, certainly. But it sure is nice to be able to control it during post vs. living with whatever you get from recording a very "wet" track.

Philip Fass · September 4th, 2010, 02:35 AM

People are going to talk about their memories of the library, and it should all have an "intimate" feel.

If I invested in a headset mic so it's less conspicuious in the shot, would the E6 be about as good as they get for the situation I have to record in?

August 30th, 2010, 08:04 AM	#1
Philip Fass Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Charlotte, VT Posts: 397	challenging audio location I need to shoot a walk-and-talk interview with someone on the main floor of an old library. If you look at the first two pictures on this page, you'll see the problem. Tour The main floor and dome are the bottom and top of the same space, and the reverb is horrible. The interviewee and exhibits needs to be on-camera at various times in the same shot. I can attach a lav as close to her mouth as possible, but is there anything else I can do to tame the echo?

August 30th, 2010, 04:51 PM	#5
Bill Davis Trustee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260 Posts: 1,538	Agree with the close-mic suggestions. Check and see if someone in your area rents the Countryman E6 or the Countryman Isomax. Either will greatly increase the signal to noise ratio between the speech and any reverberant secondary sounds. Oh, and coach the talent to remain relatively close together and talk quietly - like in a library. This is not the time for political speech projection! Good luck __________________ Classroom editing instructor? Check out www.starteditingnow.com Turnkey editor training content including licensed training footage for classroom use.

September 1st, 2010, 02:21 PM	#7
Tracy Foust Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Annapolis, MD Posts: 58	I have had good resilts with The Countryman E6 mic.

September 1st, 2010, 02:35 PM	#8
Martin Catt Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The Colony TX Posts: 327	Mic them as close as possible, one mic for each if possible. One thing that might help, but looks incredibly stupid during the shoot, is to have a pair of assistants right behind the camera carrying a padded moving blanket draped over a pole, held up high. The blanket kills a lot of the echo. The drawbacks are that it's another item to coordinate, and you have to be careful about seeing it reflected in shiny surfaces or throwing a shadow. Make sure everybody (you, your assistants, and the talent) wear SOFT shoes, as the sound of footfalls will echo horribly, probably louder than their voices. You're (probably) not going to be shooting their feet, so sneakers or athletic shoes are fine. Hard soles or heels are definitely out. Also, be careful about loose change or keys in their pockets. Martin __________________ Canon XF300, Canon 5DMkII, Canon XL2, Rolls MX422 mixer, Zoom H4N, AT899 lavs, AT2020's, Azden SGM 1X shotgun, Manfrotto 501 head on 351 tripod

September 2nd, 2010, 06:24 AM	#10
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,928	Nice looking library Phil. I'd just lav both up as normal and respectfully request they don't mumble. A good dose of reverb is necessary to add to the atmosphere and it'll change as they move through each section of the building .. it should sound great. Just as important is .. where are they going to walk and talk without running into a wall or losing you behind a bookshelf. Do it in sections and dry run 3 QandA before each take. Shoot your relevant cutaways right after each take while they figure out the next bit. Oh but you knew that :) Cheers. __________________ Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.

August 30th, 2010, 08:22 AM	#2
Dan Brockett Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 2,109	If you were shooting a static shot, you could build a small sound treated area around the talent with sound blankets, tables turned on end, etc. just out of frame. But for a walk and talk, I think you are stuck with just using a lav, what else could be done? It is a large space. Dan

August 30th, 2010, 08:32 AM	#3
Philip Fass Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Charlotte, VT Posts: 397	I read something positive about this plug-in, but I haven't tried it yet: De-Verb: Sound Performance Lab I guess I"ll do a test shoot and see how bad it is.

August 30th, 2010, 03:41 PM	#4
Richard Crowley Trustee Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 1,238	The most effective thing you can do is increase the direct-to-ambient sound level ratio while recording. One good way is to use a "headset" mic which has an almost invisible "wand" over the ear and along one cheek. You see more and more people using this type of microphone on TV. It is much more effective than a traditional lav for maximizing the speech and minimizing the ambient noise levels. Do not assume that you can "fix it in post" unless you have done th experiment in the location and successfully reduced the ambient with your software tools.

August 30th, 2010, 08:26 PM	#6
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	De-Verb is really intended for cleaning up individual instrument or drum tracks (ie crisping up a bass line by reducing the reverb until you get separation between the notes - think mud removal!) Not sure if it would be up to the challenge of something like this or not. It wouldn't hurt to try it but I wouldn't get my hopes up too much.

September 2nd, 2010, 04:23 AM	#9
Philip Fass Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Charlotte, VT Posts: 397	I already have a very good wired lav (Sanken COS-11). I haven't found this product, but don't see why it couldn't exist: A headset mic assembly without the microphone itself. Just attach your own lav. Anyone seen something like it?

September 2nd, 2010, 09:32 AM	#12
Philip Fass Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Charlotte, VT Posts: 397	Excellent! Thank you.

September 3rd, 2010, 06:20 PM	#13
Chad Johnson Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Arcata, Ca Posts: 750	Yes close mic with a lav, but keep in mind that it is just a big space. It's OK to have the audio reflect (no pun intended) accurately what the space is. As long as you can understand the subject it's not going to be a big deal. If I were going to ADR a scene in that space I would actually add big room reverb to make it seem realistic. __________________ My Work: http://www.youtube.com/ChadWork1 Sony FS5 :: Panasonic GH4 :: Sony PMW-EX1 :: FCPx :: AT4053b :: Rode NTG-3,

September 4th, 2010, 02:35 AM	#15
Philip Fass Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Charlotte, VT Posts: 397	People are going to talk about their memories of the library, and it should all have an "intimate" feel. If I invested in a headset mic so it's less conspicuious in the shot, would the E6 be about as good as they get for the situation I have to record in?