Very high price for using music

[Andrew Smith]

Noa,

They're obviously quoting you the pie-in-the-sky fee that they would like to charge you. Why not haggle with them? Make them a more appropriate offer and see what happens. Perhaps the economy is tight for them as well?

Either that or they really are a dinosaur relic business from times past.

Andrew

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by Andrew Smith

Noa,

They're obviously quoting you the pie-in-the-sky fee that they would like to charge you. Why not haggle with them? Make them a more appropriate offer and see what happens. Perhaps the economy is tight for them as well?

Either that or they really are a dinosaur relic business from times past.

Andrew

That might work if this was an ordinary song from a relatively ordinary band, but this is an iconic recording from an industry legend group. They can pretty much write their own ticket, get whatever they ask for, and walk away without any regrets from any offer they don't like. I think it was a Stones song that Conan Obrian used during one of the shows his last week on the Tonight show that set NBC back something in the order a million dollars to air one 30-second clip.

[Andrew Smith]

Have you got a source for that? I find it hard to believe that Conan's people could justify spending $1M for 30 seconds worth. On a business level, there's got to be a significant payoff in order to justify that kind of expenditure and the entrepreneurial risk that goes with it.

Andrew

[Noa Put]

It may be more liberal in Belgium but I have to wonder if the interpretation that it's okay there to use commercial music in a wedding DVD without licensing because it's for the personal use of the couple it is actually correct

When I started filming weddings I contacted SABAM who decides over these matters and they confirmed to me that music for weddings do not require any additional licensing fees, as long as the dvd was intended to be used in "familiekring" which is literally translated as "familycircle" so within their own family. They of course expect that the music used on the dvd was bought legally but I don't need to inform sabam about it.

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Andrew Smith

Why not haggle with them?

My clients budget was much too low, even to negotiate prizes.

[Andrew Smith]

Apart from the therapeutic aspect of messing with the mind of a record exec., the experience could be valuable for next time this sort of thing comes up.

Just sayin' :-P

Andrew

[Paul Cascio]

Originally Posted by Adam Gold

How time flies. It was Windows 95, the first version of Win with a "Start" button. I was there at the time.

Interesting story about that here: http://web.archive.org/web/200712140...es/016913.html

Adam, you are of course correct. Wow, has it really been that long? Thanks, I'll enjoy the article.

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

When I started filming weddings I contacted SABAM who decides over these matters and they confirmed to me that music for weddings do not require any additional licensing fees, as long as the dvd was intended to be used in "familiekring" which is literally translated as "familycircle" so within their own family. They of course expect that the music used on the dvd was bought legally but I don't need to inform sabam about it.

Did you make sure they understood you were in the business of producing and distributing wedding DVDs and not just making one for your own personal use? Over here there's a major difference between copying for your own personal use music that you have purchased and copying for distribution or resale to a third party, which is what a wedding videographer is doing. Not saying you are wrong, I have no idea what Belgian law is (and doesn't EU law actually govern?), but if you asked "Is it legal to copy music from a CD I own onto a wedding video?" it would be natural for whomever you talked to assume that you're talking about copying a CD you own onto a DVD you were making of your own wedding, not a DVD you're making as a commercial product that will then be sold to a third party (your client, the couple).

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by Andrew Smith

Have you got a source for that? I find it hard to believe that Conan's people could justify spending $1M for 30 seconds worth. On a business level, there's got to be a significant payoff in order to justify that kind of expenditure and the entrepreneurial risk that goes with it.

Andrew

For his sketch about "Bugatti Mouse" the rental on the car, the rights to put Mickey Mouse trademark ears on the car, and the rights for a single play of the Stones "Satisfaction" reportedly came to a total of $1.5 million. The rights to use 10 seconds of the Beatles "Lovely Rita" as Tom Hanks' walk-on music in the last show cost a reported $500,000.

[Noa Put]

Did you make sure they understood you were in the business of producing and distributing wedding DVDs

Yes I was very clear about that.

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Yes I was very clear about that.

You're lucky to be able to legally work in that more relaxed climate then. This side of the pond, it doesn't matter if you're doing a wedding video, an employee morale booster or training video, an indy dramatic or doco film, or a local TV spot or show, you have to play by the same rules as the major networks do for network brodacast and or the Hollywood movie studios do for mainstream theatrical release. You might not have to pay the same prices - that depends on the whim of the copyright owner - but you do have to have the same licenses. If you want to use Celine Dion's "My Heart Will Go On" recording in a wedding video you're shooting for a client you have to obtain the exact same type of rights James Cameron bought when he licensed it to use in "Titanic."

[Geoffrey Cox]

As a musician I can't help thinking the whole tenor of this thread is missing something - the song has nothing to do with business presentations and should IMHO never be used as such. Why? Because it demeans the music. Every time a band allows there stuff to be used on an advert or suchlike it destroys the music for ever more for me as I then always associate it with the (normally) useless and totally unrelated product. I wouldn't blame the Stones for charging whatever they want but really they should never allow it to be used for anything (and maybe they don't have the full rights to refuse?)

An idealistic view perhaps but I hate the way we see creative endeavors as products whose worth can only be measured in exchange value. The culture 'industry' was a term invented as a damning critique of the way we have commercialised anything of artistic value, yet we now use it without thought.

[Noa Put]

should IMHO never be used as such. Why? Because it demeans the music

Not sure if the rolling stones, u2 or other topselling bands care? some have a private jet that needs to be fueled.. Isn't it all about the money in the music industry?

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Not sure if the rolling stones, u2 or other topselling bands care? some have a private jet that needs to be fueled.. Isn't it all about the money in the music industry?

That's why they call it "Show Business."

[Shaun Roemich]

By some of the "logic" used in this thread, it seems I SHOULD be allowed to acquire copies of footage shot by all the immensely talented videographers here and reassemble it for a VERY nominal cost (like the cost of the DVDs themselves) for a benefit fundraiser I'm holding for the Assembly of People Who Like to Kick Babies and Puppies...

What? You don't want YOUR good name besmirched by inclusion of your art in my program? Wow, are people greedy... Listen, I'll give you $50. And an IMDB credit.

<Tongue planted FIRMLY in cheek>

If it's not yours, ask before you use it. My mom taught me this when I was 3.