Canon XHG1 Audio to Pinnicle when firewire busted at DVinfo.net

Jason Johnson · July 29th, 2010, 12:03 PM

I have a friend who's Canon XHG1 firewire port is dead and he depended on it to record HD vid and sound to pinnacle video capture.

His only other HD capable option is the Camera's "optical out" but it carries no sound, There are no optical input ports on the PC, its a Windows Vista dual core with vid card and 4 gig ram.There are no highspeed ports on the PC other than Fire Wire. I am an IT guy but with no video capture experience and the camera could not make it out for fire wire repair before next week's event and it could make or break his business. Our budget to get something working is about $300

I will share what I am doing so far, can you please help with your experience?

1.) I plan to get an Optical to HDMI converter box
2.) I will get an HDMI capture card that will fit in the PC's open PCI-e x1 slot.
3.) My theory is pinnacle will now see the digital HDMI converter box feed and capture the HD 1080p 60f video fed from the analog optical cable

However the optical out does not carry audio. Can you help me by the following:
is the plan above a good approach?
If so how can I also capture audio?
Any experience, tips, products you can recommend I am grateful.

Jay Massengill · July 29th, 2010, 12:39 PM

I think the easiest way to capture audio would be with an inexpensive audio recorder connected to the analog audio line outs of the camera, or connected directly to the audio mixer that was originally feeding the camera. Then sync the captured video and audio files in post.
Many audio recorders with -10db line-level inputs have dropped in price lately. For example the TEAC VR-10 has been $99 on sale and the Sony PCM-M10 is now $199, and there are others in between.
Proper cables, good headphones and some method to provide a visual and audible sync mark will be important since there's no audio coming in with the video signal.
There will likely be drift between the two files over long takes too. That will have to be dealt with but it's not a major problem to fix.

Jason Johnson · July 29th, 2010, 01:44 PM

Nice to meet you and thank you for the prompt reply.

I forgot to mention the camera does have a headphone out jack, an RCA out, and Mic channels one and two, looks like an oversized DIMM s-video plug.

I was wondering if there is a way to run perhaps the RCA into a converter box along with the optical HD video signal. Do converter boxes exist that will merge seperate audio and video feeds, or is that not feasible or too expensive?

I will look up some of the ways you suggested as an option because we can definitely merge the audio video in post. But if we can capture the audio through direct to the computer it would be easiest for our process. Capture as one merged signal with both audio and video to the computer is our ideal solution. If that is not feasible then 2 separate captures of audio and video to the computer would be second best way.

Jason Johnson · July 29th, 2010, 03:31 PM

Do you think this unit will work?

VGA to HDMI, DVI to HDMI, & Component RCA to HDMI

The middle one Component Video & SPDIF Toslink Audio to HDMI Digital Converter. It says it will convert digital multichannel RCA along with the component video. But does the regular Audio Video (yellow, white, red) output the RCA audio in a way that would link up to that yellow coaxial in. I think not but can someone more knowledgeable comment?

Here is the spec
* Support Video Input: Up to capture YPbPr1080p. 330Mbandwidth, 50 / 60H
* Support Audio SPDIF Input: DTS-HD / Doiby-trueHD / LPCM7.1 / DTS / DoIby-AC3 / DSD
* HDNI Output: Support up to 1080p / 60HZ same format as input
* Support Audio Format Output: DTS-HD / DoIby-trueHD / LPCM7.1 / DTS / DoIby-AC3 / DSD
* LED Indication: When source or sink is working, LED relative to is light
* One (Optical+Coax) input signal convert to one HDMI 1.1 sink devices
* HDCP1.1 protocol compliant
* Support CEC
* Support output up to 20 metres AWG 26 cable length
* No loss of quality
* Installs in minutes
* Need DC 5V / 0.8A power supply

The camera hookup diagram is on page 80 here:
http://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/3/030000...a1s-nim-en.pdf
All the camera's outputs are listed on pgs 12 and 13. Note this model does not have HD/SDI out

Jason Johnson · July 29th, 2010, 08:48 PM

I found this one too

Component Video + Analog Audio to HDMI Converter

Jason Johnson · July 29th, 2010, 10:23 PM

Although this unit is discontinued I think you can still buy it. It looks like you put the component video into a VGA adapter but it says it still supports 1080. The RCA plugs into a seperate port and the unit merges them to HDMI, or so it says
Gefen Inc. - Component Audio to HDMI Adapter (Discontinued)

What do you think?

Chris Soucy · July 29th, 2010, 11:25 PM

You didn't mention whether this is "live" or not.

If it's not live, then why not invest in that good 'ol standby alternative (second hand) tape deck called a HV20/ 30/ 40? Cheap as chips but far more reliable.

If it's live, does the Pinnacle card not have seperate audio inputs? Does it not accept Component video?

Er, BTW, I can't figure out where you got the idea the XH G1 has an Optical Out option. If you can find one I'm minded to eat my shorts, as well as yours.

I think you may want to go back to square one with this and figure out a workable flow that's slightly more reality based.

If it's live = Component and seperate audio

If it's not = cheap HV series camcorder to transcribe the tape.

Easy.

CS

Jason Johnson · July 30th, 2010, 12:29 AM

Yup it is live sorry if I did not specify that, very important to record live. Maybe I got the camera model incorrect. It is a cannon and it has the optical out port. Is it possibly the XH S1? It does not have the HD SDI port listed in the manual but it does have firewire out and an optical video out (I think also called Y Pb Pr?). There is an AV output too that goes from one plug out to red white RCA.

There are no inputs currently on the PC other than the fire wire, and the fire wire output on the camera is currently inoperative.

Sorry for the confusion, I not only know little to nothing about video capture, but my friend has to have this working by Wed, and cannon repair centers can not guarantee the camera's return by then for fire wire repair. FYI - We can currently capture in SD by using a usb converter box, but HD is very important and the SD USB capture is proving to be problematic with poor quality and choppy playback. I can't think of another option than to get the optical video working along with an audio capture.

I bought the following components to see if we can get the optical out with audio to work.

Amazon.com: Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro HDMI Editing Card with PCI Express: Electronics

.
.
i also ordered a backup in case the optical cable adapter included with the intensity pro does not work

Amazon.com: COMPONENT AUDIO TO HDMI ADAPTER: Electronics

I don't know if I am going in the right direction or if there are better ways. Just don't have the experience

Jason Johnson · July 30th, 2010, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Soucy

You didn't mention whether this is "live" or not.

If it's not live, then why not invest in that good 'ol standby alternative (second hand) tape deck called a HV20/ 30/ 40? Cheap as chips but far more reliable.

If it's live, does the Pinnacle card not have seperate audio inputs? Does it not accept Component video?

Er, BTW, I can't figure out where you got the idea the XH G1 has an Optical Out option. If you can find one I'm minded to eat my shorts, as well as yours.

I think you may want to go back to square one with this and figure out a workable flow that's slightly more reality based.

If it's live = Component and seperate audio

If it's not = cheap HV series camcorder to transcribe the tape.

Easy.

CS

"If it's live = Component and seperate audio" - there is currently no component input or capture card on the PC, I also am having no luck finding a PCI-e card that accpets a direct component video connection. Is there such a thing? The previous capture method was through fire wire but the fire wire port on the camera has broken.

"If it's not = cheap HV series camcorder to transcribe the tape". - I didn't think of this option but we are doing live with a chase play type playback so going from tape unfortunately would not get us there

Sorry if its frustrating to work with a noob, not knowing a technology and being in crisis mode is never a fun thing.

Chris Soucy · July 30th, 2010, 01:29 AM

Y, Pb, Pr is Component, and is highly likely (er, a zillion to one) NOT Optical.

There is, as far as I am aware (someone prove me wrong please) NO Optical out on any Canon consumer or prosumer camcorder currently or in past production. It will be analogue, unless it is FireWire or USB.

That the Pinnacle interface card does not support Component and seperate Audio is a bit of a disgrace, quite frankly (I've just checked their web site and the disgrace is there for all to see!).

So, if you want HD, the only source is the cameras Component out, NOT Optical, but analogue. Don't talk about VGA adapters, as no VGA unit was ever designed for anything other than vanilla SD, in spades.

So, I cannot see any other route forward (barr borrowing/ renting an alternative camera, might be a smart move) but to get a Component to Firewire adapter and take it from there.

On balance, finding a replacement camera seems to be the smartest route here, as any workaround is temporary and will cost bucks that cannot be recovered easily.

On a side note: Jason, don't shoot the messenger. I had to work with what you provided. It happens, and I ain't no NOOB (was once!). Give ALL the info and we WILL work it out, if it can be worked out.

There's enough intellectual and experience fire power on this site to send someone to Saturn, you just need to ask the right question(s) and provide the necessary data to crunch.

Let's see if we can make this fly.

CS

Jason Johnson · August 2nd, 2010, 11:19 AM

If my replies offended I didn't mean too. When you said "shoot the messenger" I didn't ever intend anything to come out that way and sorry if it did. I am grateful for the help. I am not yet comfortable working on this equipment.

Also I am a complete boob. I totally meant "component" when I said "optical". Don't know why I did that and I know how much it confused things. But please anywhere I said "Optical" substitute with "Component" and should make more sense. Optical is not even part of the equation.

I did end up purchasing a Blackmagic intensity pro HDMI capture card along with a converter box that is advertised to accept a component input + RCA audio input and merge them to 1 HDMI output. Then I plan to run from the converter box to the Blackmagic HDMI card installed in the PC. If all goes well it should get HD with audio. But I am not sure if all that converting will work. Do you foresee any issues? If the sound gets a little out of synch with the video it actually wont matter to much unless its waaaaaaaay off. Each capture is about 8 min. So not a lot of time to get out of sync if the box works halfway good.

I didn't even think about 'renting' a camera. Are there places online that do that or perhaps someone here? Or do you suggest searching local?

July 29th, 2010, 12:03 PM	#1
Jason Johnson New Boot Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 11	Canon XHG1 Audio to Pinnicle when firewire busted I have a friend who's Canon XHG1 firewire port is dead and he depended on it to record HD vid and sound to pinnacle video capture. His only other HD capable option is the Camera's "optical out" but it carries no sound, There are no optical input ports on the PC, its a Windows Vista dual core with vid card and 4 gig ram.There are no highspeed ports on the PC other than Fire Wire. I am an IT guy but with no video capture experience and the camera could not make it out for fire wire repair before next week's event and it could make or break his business. Our budget to get something working is about $300 I will share what I am doing so far, can you please help with your experience? 1.) I plan to get an Optical to HDMI converter box 2.) I will get an HDMI capture card that will fit in the PC's open PCI-e x1 slot. 3.) My theory is pinnacle will now see the digital HDMI converter box feed and capture the HD 1080p 60f video fed from the analog optical cable However the optical out does not carry audio. Can you help me by the following: is the plan above a good approach? If so how can I also capture audio? Any experience, tips, products you can recommend I am grateful.

July 29th, 2010, 11:25 PM	#7
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Er, Jason........... You didn't mention whether this is "live" or not. If it's not live, then why not invest in that good 'ol standby alternative (second hand) tape deck called a HV20/ 30/ 40? Cheap as chips but far more reliable. If it's live, does the Pinnacle card not have seperate audio inputs? Does it not accept Component video? Er, BTW, I can't figure out where you got the idea the XH G1 has an Optical Out option. If you can find one I'm minded to eat my shorts, as well as yours. I think you may want to go back to square one with this and figure out a workable flow that's slightly more reality based. If it's live = Component and seperate audio If it's not = cheap HV series camcorder to transcribe the tape. Easy. CS

July 30th, 2010, 12:29 AM	#8
Jason Johnson New Boot Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 11	Yup it is live sorry if I did not specify that, very important to record live. Maybe I got the camera model incorrect. It is a cannon and it has the optical out port. Is it possibly the XH S1? It does not have the HD SDI port listed in the manual but it does have firewire out and an optical video out (I think also called Y Pb Pr?). There is an AV output too that goes from one plug out to red white RCA. There are no inputs currently on the PC other than the fire wire, and the fire wire output on the camera is currently inoperative. Sorry for the confusion, I not only know little to nothing about video capture, but my friend has to have this working by Wed, and cannon repair centers can not guarantee the camera's return by then for fire wire repair. FYI - We can currently capture in SD by using a usb converter box, but HD is very important and the SD USB capture is proving to be problematic with poor quality and choppy playback. I can't think of another option than to get the optical video working along with an audio capture. I bought the following components to see if we can get the optical out with audio to work. Amazon.com: Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro HDMI Editing Card with PCI Express: Electronics Amazon.com: Blackmagic Design Intensity Pro HDMI Editing Card with PCI Express: Electronics . . i also ordered a backup in case the optical cable adapter included with the intensity pro does not work Amazon.com: COMPONENT AUDIO TO HDMI ADAPTER: Electronics Amazon.com: COMPONENT AUDIO TO HDMI ADAPTER: Electronics I don't know if I am going in the right direction or if there are better ways. Just don't have the experience

July 30th, 2010, 01:29 AM	#10
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	No problemo.............. Y, Pb, Pr is Component, and is highly likely (er, a zillion to one) NOT Optical. There is, as far as I am aware (someone prove me wrong please) NO Optical out on any Canon consumer or prosumer camcorder currently or in past production. It will be analogue, unless it is FireWire or USB. That the Pinnacle interface card does not support Component and seperate Audio is a bit of a disgrace, quite frankly (I've just checked their web site and the disgrace is there for all to see!). So, if you want HD, the only source is the cameras Component out, NOT Optical, but analogue. Don't talk about VGA adapters, as no VGA unit was ever designed for anything other than vanilla SD, in spades. So, I cannot see any other route forward (barr borrowing/ renting an alternative camera, might be a smart move) but to get a Component to Firewire adapter and take it from there. On balance, finding a replacement camera seems to be the smartest route here, as any workaround is temporary and will cost bucks that cannot be recovered easily. On a side note: Jason, don't shoot the messenger. I had to work with what you provided. It happens, and I ain't no NOOB (was once!). Give ALL the info and we WILL work it out, if it can be worked out. There's enough intellectual and experience fire power on this site to send someone to Saturn, you just need to ask the right question(s) and provide the necessary data to crunch. Let's see if we can make this fly. CS

July 29th, 2010, 12:39 PM	#2
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	I think the easiest way to capture audio would be with an inexpensive audio recorder connected to the analog audio line outs of the camera, or connected directly to the audio mixer that was originally feeding the camera. Then sync the captured video and audio files in post. Many audio recorders with -10db line-level inputs have dropped in price lately. For example the TEAC VR-10 has been $99 on sale and the Sony PCM-M10 is now $199, and there are others in between. Proper cables, good headphones and some method to provide a visual and audible sync mark will be important since there's no audio coming in with the video signal. There will likely be drift between the two files over long takes too. That will have to be dealt with but it's not a major problem to fix.

July 29th, 2010, 01:44 PM	#3
Jason Johnson New Boot Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 11	Nice to meet you and thank you for the prompt reply. I forgot to mention the camera does have a headphone out jack, an RCA out, and Mic channels one and two, looks like an oversized DIMM s-video plug. I was wondering if there is a way to run perhaps the RCA into a converter box along with the optical HD video signal. Do converter boxes exist that will merge seperate audio and video feeds, or is that not feasible or too expensive? I will look up some of the ways you suggested as an option because we can definitely merge the audio video in post. But if we can capture the audio through direct to the computer it would be easiest for our process. Capture as one merged signal with both audio and video to the computer is our ideal solution. If that is not feasible then 2 separate captures of audio and video to the computer would be second best way.

July 29th, 2010, 03:31 PM	#4
Jason Johnson New Boot Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 11	Do you think this unit will work? VGA to HDMI, DVI to HDMI, & Component RCA to HDMI The middle one Component Video & SPDIF Toslink Audio to HDMI Digital Converter. It says it will convert digital multichannel RCA along with the component video. But does the regular Audio Video (yellow, white, red) output the RCA audio in a way that would link up to that yellow coaxial in. I think not but can someone more knowledgeable comment? Here is the spec * Support Video Input: Up to capture YPbPr1080p. 330Mbandwidth, 50 / 60H * Support Audio SPDIF Input: DTS-HD / Doiby-trueHD / LPCM7.1 / DTS / DoIby-AC3 / DSD * HDNI Output: Support up to 1080p / 60HZ same format as input * Support Audio Format Output: DTS-HD / DoIby-trueHD / LPCM7.1 / DTS / DoIby-AC3 / DSD * LED Indication: When source or sink is working, LED relative to is light * One (Optical+Coax) input signal convert to one HDMI 1.1 sink devices * HDCP1.1 protocol compliant * Support CEC * Support output up to 20 metres AWG 26 cable length * No loss of quality * Installs in minutes * Need DC 5V / 0.8A power supply The camera hookup diagram is on page 80 here: http://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/3/030000...a1s-nim-en.pdf All the camera's outputs are listed on pgs 12 and 13. Note this model does not have HD/SDI out

July 29th, 2010, 08:48 PM	#5
Jason Johnson New Boot Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 11	I found this one too Component Video + Analog Audio to HDMI Converter

July 29th, 2010, 10:23 PM	#6
Jason Johnson New Boot Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 11	Although this unit is discontinued I think you can still buy it. It looks like you put the component video into a VGA adapter but it says it still supports 1080. The RCA plugs into a seperate port and the unit merges them to HDMI, or so it says Gefen Inc. - Component Audio to HDMI Adapter (Discontinued) What do you think?

August 2nd, 2010, 11:19 AM	#11
Jason Johnson New Boot Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 11	If my replies offended I didn't mean too. When you said "shoot the messenger" I didn't ever intend anything to come out that way and sorry if it did. I am grateful for the help. I am not yet comfortable working on this equipment. Also I am a complete boob. I totally meant "component" when I said "optical". Don't know why I did that and I know how much it confused things. But please anywhere I said "Optical" substitute with "Component" and should make more sense. Optical is not even part of the equation. I did end up purchasing a Blackmagic intensity pro HDMI capture card along with a converter box that is advertised to accept a component input + RCA audio input and merge them to 1 HDMI output. Then I plan to run from the converter box to the Blackmagic HDMI card installed in the PC. If all goes well it should get HD with audio. But I am not sure if all that converting will work. Do you foresee any issues? If the sound gets a little out of synch with the video it actually wont matter to much unless its waaaaaaaay off. Each capture is about 8 min. So not a lot of time to get out of sync if the box works halfway good. I didn't even think about 'renting' a camera. Are there places online that do that or perhaps someone here? Or do you suggest searching local?