Audio mixer/recorder

Bruce S. Yarock · July 25th, 2010, 05:20 AM

I've bought a Sounddevices 302 a few years ago, and used it from time to time, It's a fantastic piece of equipement. lately I've been doing more shooting with the Canon 7d's, which requires seperate audio.

We did a couple of indie shorts recently and I ran the mics into the SD302, and recorded into my Edirol R-09. The sound was excellent ( but of course I had to use a sound man). I also have a Tascam dr-100, which I have used as a recorder attached to my 7d rig, and this setup I can run on my own. It also sounds great and has independent rightand left xlr levels.

I have several different mics I use. Oktava with 3 capsules, Akg Blue line with both hyper and long shotgun capsules, Audiotechnica AT 897 ( my run and gun shotgun for my Canon XLH1), Sennheiser wireless and Sony wired lavs.

While mic choice is important I have to reiterate how happy I am with the SD302. I could definately see upgrading to their 4 or 5 cjannel model if I did more elaborate sound work.
Bruce Yarock
www.yarockvideo.com

Jim Andrada · July 25th, 2010, 10:15 PM

By the way

I looked at the photos of the Tascam 680 and Edirol R44 and noticed that the seem to both be intended for use on a table top as opposed to a sound bag as they have controls on both front and top- the 302 and 702 have all controls on the front (top when vertical in a bag) so they can be used by a sound guy while moving about

Probably not a big issue if you're more or less stationary

Sjoerd Banga · July 26th, 2010, 05:07 AM

The most important controls for changing volume are on the front of the Tascam. Tabletop use is what I had in mind.

But this morning I ordered the Tascam DR-680 by the way. On paper it looks pretty sweet!

Bruce: you are right about the SD mixer and using that should make the audio quality better, but for me at this moment the recorder option seems to be the best option. In the future I always can buy/hire a good mixer. First I want to learn to get the most out of the Tascam before adding more equipment in my workflow.

Jim Andrada · July 26th, 2010, 08:25 AM

Great! I think it is a good choice for your situation. Let us know how you like it.

Bruce S. Yarock · July 27th, 2010, 12:25 PM

Sjoerd,
When I'm shooting solo with the 7d, I use the Tascam dr-100 mounted on my rig, and record directly into it. I run a step down line into the camera's audio input, which gives me better refernce than the on board agc mic, and is sometimes usable alone.
Good luck
Bruce Yarock

Dean Sensui · July 28th, 2010, 12:09 AM

The Edirol R44 works OK in a bag. The knobs are on the front face, which works nicely when seated in a sound bag. The buttons on the top are for the menu and playback. But for the majority of operations, the knobs and readout on the front are easily accessible.

It's hard to beat the technical qualities of Tascam.

Sjoerd Banga · July 28th, 2010, 02:51 AM

Bruce: to understand it correctly. When you write "better reference", do you mean during filming or during post for sync?
With agc mic you mean Auto gain control (just a guess)? I have no experiences with the 7D.

Dean: i expect the Tascam will about be the same in a bag as the Edirol R44. I just have to find out what bag suits me best. The one Tascam offers (CS-DR680) or a a bigger one. The smaller Tascam bag has its advantages (size, portability).

Regards,

Sjoerd Banga

Bruce S. Yarock · July 28th, 2010, 05:26 AM

Sjoerd,
When shooting video with the dslrs like the Canon 7D, you need to record your audio on to something other than the camera. The audio captured by the on camera mic is usually for reference only, and yes, is used to match up and sync with the real audio in post.

"AGC" means auto gain control, which is the main reason trhat the on camera audio is hardly ever usable. By using a step down cable (pinknoise) from the recorder to the camera, you get the best possible signal into the camera, and the reulting audio is occasionally usable ( ambient sound, etc., but not for important interview, etc. ).

Some people have been using things like the juicelink or beechtek as pre mixers, and they supposedly send a tone signal which "tricks" the camera into defeating the AGC, but I've never tried either. Like many others, I;m hopeull that firmware to get rid of the AGC will be available in the not too distant future.

Bruce Yarock

July 25th, 2010, 10:15 PM	#17
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	By the way I looked at the photos of the Tascam 680 and Edirol R44 and noticed that the seem to both be intended for use on a table top as opposed to a sound bag as they have controls on both front and top- the 302 and 702 have all controls on the front (top when vertical in a bag) so they can be used by a sound guy while moving about Probably not a big issue if you're more or less stationary Last edited by Jim Andrada; July 25th, 2010 at 11:27 PM.

July 28th, 2010, 12:09 AM	#21
Dean Sensui Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 2,054	The Edirol R44 works OK in a bag. The knobs are on the front face, which works nicely when seated in a sound bag. The buttons on the top are for the menu and playback. But for the majority of operations, the knobs and readout on the front are easily accessible. It's hard to beat the technical qualities of Tascam. __________________ Dean Sensui Exec Producer, Hawaii Goes Fishing

July 25th, 2010, 05:20 AM	#16
Bruce S. Yarock Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl. Posts: 1,842	I've bought a Sounddevices 302 a few years ago, and used it from time to time, It's a fantastic piece of equipement. lately I've been doing more shooting with the Canon 7d's, which requires seperate audio. We did a couple of indie shorts recently and I ran the mics into the SD302, and recorded into my Edirol R-09. The sound was excellent ( but of course I had to use a sound man). I also have a Tascam dr-100, which I have used as a recorder attached to my 7d rig, and this setup I can run on my own. It also sounds great and has independent rightand left xlr levels. I have several different mics I use. Oktava with 3 capsules, Akg Blue line with both hyper and long shotgun capsules, Audiotechnica AT 897 ( my run and gun shotgun for my Canon XLH1), Sennheiser wireless and Sony wired lavs. While mic choice is important I have to reiterate how happy I am with the SD302. I could definately see upgrading to their 4 or 5 cjannel model if I did more elaborate sound work. Bruce Yarock www.yarockvideo.com

July 26th, 2010, 05:07 AM	#18
Sjoerd Banga Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Meppel, The Netherlands Posts: 27	The most important controls for changing volume are on the front of the Tascam. Tabletop use is what I had in mind. But this morning I ordered the Tascam DR-680 by the way. On paper it looks pretty sweet! Bruce: you are right about the SD mixer and using that should make the audio quality better, but for me at this moment the recorder option seems to be the best option. In the future I always can buy/hire a good mixer. First I want to learn to get the most out of the Tascam before adding more equipment in my workflow.

July 26th, 2010, 08:25 AM	#19
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Great! I think it is a good choice for your situation. Let us know how you like it.

July 27th, 2010, 12:25 PM	#20
Bruce S. Yarock Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl. Posts: 1,842	Sjoerd, When I'm shooting solo with the 7d, I use the Tascam dr-100 mounted on my rig, and record directly into it. I run a step down line into the camera's audio input, which gives me better refernce than the on board agc mic, and is sometimes usable alone. Good luck Bruce Yarock

July 28th, 2010, 02:51 AM	#22
Sjoerd Banga Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Meppel, The Netherlands Posts: 27	Bruce: to understand it correctly. When you write "better reference", do you mean during filming or during post for sync? With agc mic you mean Auto gain control (just a guess)? I have no experiences with the 7D. Dean: i expect the Tascam will about be the same in a bag as the Edirol R44. I just have to find out what bag suits me best. The one Tascam offers (CS-DR680) or a a bigger one. The smaller Tascam bag has its advantages (size, portability). Regards, Sjoerd Banga

July 28th, 2010, 05:26 AM	#23
Bruce S. Yarock Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl. Posts: 1,842	Sjoerd, When shooting video with the dslrs like the Canon 7D, you need to record your audio on to something other than the camera. The audio captured by the on camera mic is usually for reference only, and yes, is used to match up and sync with the real audio in post. "AGC" means auto gain control, which is the main reason trhat the on camera audio is hardly ever usable. By using a step down cable (pinknoise) from the recorder to the camera, you get the best possible signal into the camera, and the reulting audio is occasionally usable ( ambient sound, etc., but not for important interview, etc. ). Some people have been using things like the juicelink or beechtek as pre mixers, and they supposedly send a tone signal which "tricks" the camera into defeating the AGC, but I've never tried either. Like many others, I;m hopeull that firmware to get rid of the AGC will be available in the not too distant future. Bruce Yarock