Need isolation headphones

Jacques Mersereau · August 1st, 2005, 10:24 AM

I'm jumping in here very late, but here is another thing to try.

Etymotic earbuds and shooters muffs.

http://www.etymotic.com/\

I have not personally used these earbuds, but lots of folks on this
board like them a lot.

You have to be very careful when using headphones in a high SPL surrounding.
When you have to turn them up all the way, and still cannot hear
what is happening, I would guess you are damaging your hearing.

Earbuds will help with isolation and the heavy duty shooters muffs
covering your ears will
give even more isolation meaning you don't have to crank the earbuds.
I found some shooters muffs I like at Cabelas for $20. They are blue
and have nice comfortable pads enabling long wear times. I can't
remember the brand name.

Again, be careful with your hearing.

Brett Whited · August 1st, 2005, 11:29 AM

Has anyone tried the 7506's little brother: the 7505s? Are they comparable to the 7506s? I like the compact design better, but if they aren't going to cancel any sound out (even a little bit) then I'll go for the 7506's.
Thanks
-Brett

Jos Svendsen · August 1st, 2005, 12:22 PM

I have been using the Ex29 (www.extremeheadphones.com) with a Canon Xl1s in a live bandsituation, and they are very good for this. In fact i found myself next to the bass stack without noticing it - exept for the pounding in my stomach.

I later tried a nomal set of AKG D240's and they ware useless in this environment.

It was a "normal" rockband in a small venue, so it was not death metal volume. I had no problem monitoring the sound from the XL1s, when the band was playing at a volume where you had to shout at full volume in order to be understood 20 feet from stage. The EX29 headphones has a somewhat undefined top, and are not usable as all round phones. But for monitoring in noisy environment they are perfect. And they look sort of StarTrekish

However there are alternatives. Beyer Dynamic DT-770M gives more damping > 36 dBs and Vic Firth SIH1 less at 24 dBs.

Halfdan J. Damskier · August 8th, 2005, 03:02 AM

This is an interesting thread. I am new to all this, so I wont be able to make any statements on headphones whatsoever. Just wanted to say I noticed that right now and "for a limited time" Front End Audio have the afforementioned Extreme Isolation Headphones on sale for 90 USD. http://frontendaudio.com/Extreme%20I...Headphones.htm

Douglas Spotted Eagle · August 8th, 2005, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfdan J. Damskier

This is an interesting thread. I am new to all this, so I wont be able to make any statements on headphones whatsoever. Just wanted to say I noticed that right now and "for a limited time" Front End Audio have the afforementioned Extreme Isolation Headphones on sale for 90 USD. http://frontendaudio.com/Extreme%20I...Headphones.htm

Hmm...I've never heard of "Front End Audio". I'll have to check those out. Thanks for the tip. And welcome to the forum!

Dave Largent · August 8th, 2005, 10:03 AM

I like the low impedance on those Exteme Headphones,
which means most any type of consumer device would drive them to a high volume. The one issue I've had with the
Beyers is their higher impedance, which means my
cam can't drive them to the higher volume levels
without a headphone amp, which I haven't picked up
yet. I've seen some headphone amps in the $60
range.
I found a couple of website forums where headphones
and everything related to them are discussed
by hobbiests, but I can't recall the addresses
off the top of my head.

Halfdan J. Damskier · August 8th, 2005, 12:21 PM

Thanks for the welcome Douglas! Must admit that I hadn't run "Front End Audio" through resellerratings etc. Being from Europe I'd forgotten what a problem scam operations are in the US. After reading your post I did a seach on them and couldn't find any reviews on the company. However, Google brought up a couple of interesting links.

The company is mentioned here: http://mixonline.com/news/audio_front_end_audio/

(copy & paste if hot link doesn't work)

and this place is apparently co-sponsored by them: http://www.mojopie.com/

I haven't done any business with them myself, so I can't say whether they are for real or not - but the above links do seem to give them some credibility.

See you around Douglas!

-----------------------

To Brett Whited: If you can use the advice of a newbie; read on. I own a pair of Sony 7505s and I like the sound of them. However, to my ears, they don't really cancel out a lot of sound. I am wearing them unplugged as I write these lines, and I hear the sound of my computer's fan loud and clear through their sparse foam cushioning. Also you should know that unless you have circular shaped ears, with a diameter of 40mm or less, they wont go around your ears, but on top of them - something which I don't find all that comfortable. If you compare the specs of the 7505 and 7506 you will also notice that there are some differences. I'll let the pros comment on the specs as I can't help you on that. I did notice, however, that the two headphones almost weigh the same - but my guess is that the true "around the ear" shape of the 7506s would make them more noise cancelling and a lot more comfortable to wear. I'll keep my 7505s for now, but if I were you I would go for Sony's 7506.

Dean Sensui · August 8th, 2005, 06:59 PM

I now use Futuresonics EM3's in the field to make sure that I'm hearing what the camera's getting and not ambient sound.

http://www.futuresonics.com/

Was using Sony MDR-V6's but couldn't get enough isolation to know exactly what the mic was picking up.

Eventually I'll opt for the custom fitted earpieces. If I had to do it over again I'd probably opt for the custom fitted ones right off the bat.

Jos Svendsen · August 9th, 2005, 01:29 AM

There is an interesting thing about these extreme isolation headphones, that makes you sympathize with deaf people. We all know the viewfinder-syndrome, where you are so occupied looking in the viewfinder, that you sort of ignores the rest of the world. This might be fatal, if you are recording events like live volcanoes or war.

The extreme isolation headphones has the same effect. You drift into your own world of silence away from the real world. I was recording a theater performance - not very noisy, but I used my EX29 in order to be 101 % sure that the sound was good. I was adrift in a world of silence, that ended when my wife banged me on the head. She had tried to get in contact with me for 2-3 minutes, but I had an eye glued to my XL1s viewfinder and was using my EX29's, so I was totally lost.

Since then she had her own pair pf Ex29's for use in her musicproduction with Apples Garageband, meaning that entering a room in our home late in the evening is done with a blinking of the lights. Because either I am NLE'ing or she is Garagebanding and in both cases lost to the real world.

The kid has learned to poke mum or dad with a little pointy finger, when we have the funny headphones on. *He* likes the reaction of num or dad going into heart-attack-mode.

Dave Largent · August 9th, 2005, 02:15 AM

I'm not sure about this but doesn't hearing have
something to do with balance, such as when you
walk?

Steve House · August 9th, 2005, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Largent

I'm not sure about this but doesn't hearing have
something to do with balance, such as when you
walk?

The ears are where the balance sensors are located but balance is not related to sound detection per se. Of course injuries or disease that affect hearing would also be liable to affect the balance organs as well but simply blocking off sounds at the ear would not.

Dave Largent · August 9th, 2005, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Retread

Dave, you aren't going to get 34-36 dB reduction from standard non-ear canal phones. Maybe they're out there somewhere, but not at any price that can be paid by us mortals. If such phones existed we would certainly have heard about them here.

Well, Fred, I don't really know about the real dB reduction
with the Beyers but I have seen how many say that the
Senn 280s are pretty isolating, and the Beyers are
noticeably more isolating.
Myself, I'm not interested in ear canal phones. For one,
I am constantly putting the phones on, taking them
off, on, and off. Probably 30X a day when I'm on the
job. I really wonder if the ear canal type would be
recommended for this usage?

Dave Largent · August 30th, 2005, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jos Svendsen

I have been using the Ex29 (www.extremeheadphones.com) with a Canon Xl1s in a live bandsituation, and they are very good for this. In fact i dBs.

How are the comfort on those Extreme Isolation?
I've been looking at getting a headphone amp
for my DT770Ms but have been thinking
about maybe trying the Extremes seeing as
an amp is in the area of $75 anyway, so this
way I'd have 2 headphones.

Jos Svendsen · August 30th, 2005, 01:12 PM

All these headphones have a quite tight fit i order to make sure sound is not leaking in.

It took me some time to get used to the EX29s.

Cheers

Dave Largent · September 17th, 2005, 03:54 AM

Just wanted to say that I've finally been able to
get what I wanted out of the Beyer DT770M.
The problem I had at first was that they seemed
to isolate pretty good but the camcorder wouldn't
drive them to enough volume. Well, now I've
used them with a Sound Devices MixPre.
With the SD headphone level set at about 1/3
of max, I get all the volume I need. And I can really
see how these phones do offer very significant
isolation as compared to the Sony 7506s.
As far as how they sound, I can't really say yet.
My main goal was to be able to make sure
I was getting distortion in loud environments, and
that I think the Beyers will do.
My initial impression is that the Beyers are weak
in the mids but I wonder if this may help if you
ever have to mix with phones. For example, I've
heard it said that if you mix with phones
(dialog and music) and the vocals sound good
with phones, that the vocals will be too low in reality.
So if phones are weak on mids, perhaps they will
give a vocals mix that is more like what you'll
get with near field monitors. Anyone care to comment
on this hypothesis?

August 1st, 2005, 10:24 AM	#16
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	I'm jumping in here very late, but here is another thing to try. Etymotic earbuds and shooters muffs. http://www.etymotic.com/\ I have not personally used these earbuds, but lots of folks on this board like them a lot. You have to be very careful when using headphones in a high SPL surrounding. When you have to turn them up all the way, and still cannot hear what is happening, I would guess you are damaging your hearing. Earbuds will help with isolation and the heavy duty shooters muffs covering your ears will give even more isolation meaning you don't have to crank the earbuds. I found some shooters muffs I like at Cabelas for $20. They are blue and have nice comfortable pads enabling long wear times. I can't remember the brand name. Again, be careful with your hearing. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

August 8th, 2005, 03:02 AM	#19
Halfdan J. Damskier Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Location: Aalborg, Denmark Posts: 29	This is an interesting thread. I am new to all this, so I wont be able to make any statements on headphones whatsoever. Just wanted to say I noticed that right now and "for a limited time" Front End Audio have the afforementioned Extreme Isolation Headphones on sale for 90 USD. http://frontendaudio.com/Extreme%20I...Headphones.htm Last edited by Halfdan J. Damskier; August 8th, 2005 at 03:12 AM. Reason: Hopefully the link is now "clickable"

August 8th, 2005, 12:21 PM	#22
Halfdan J. Damskier Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Location: Aalborg, Denmark Posts: 29	Thanks for the welcome Douglas! Must admit that I hadn't run "Front End Audio" through resellerratings etc. Being from Europe I'd forgotten what a problem scam operations are in the US. After reading your post I did a seach on them and couldn't find any reviews on the company. However, Google brought up a couple of interesting links. The company is mentioned here: http://mixonline.com/news/audio_front_end_audio/ (copy & paste if hot link doesn't work) and this place is apparently co-sponsored by them: http://www.mojopie.com/ I haven't done any business with them myself, so I can't say whether they are for real or not - but the above links do seem to give them some credibility. See you around Douglas! ----------------------- To Brett Whited: If you can use the advice of a newbie; read on. I own a pair of Sony 7505s and I like the sound of them. However, to my ears, they don't really cancel out a lot of sound. I am wearing them unplugged as I write these lines, and I hear the sound of my computer's fan loud and clear through their sparse foam cushioning. Also you should know that unless you have circular shaped ears, with a diameter of 40mm or less, they wont go around your ears, but on top of them - something which I don't find all that comfortable. If you compare the specs of the 7505 and 7506 you will also notice that there are some differences. I'll let the pros comment on the specs as I can't help you on that. I did notice, however, that the two headphones almost weigh the same - but my guess is that the true "around the ear" shape of the 7506s would make them more noise cancelling and a lot more comfortable to wear. I'll keep my 7505s for now, but if I were you I would go for Sony's 7506. Last edited by Halfdan J. Damskier; August 9th, 2005 at 08:01 AM. Reason: Hot links had expired - copy and paste should work.

August 8th, 2005, 06:59 PM	#23
Dean Sensui Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 2,054	I now use Futuresonics EM3's in the field to make sure that I'm hearing what the camera's getting and not ambient sound. http://www.futuresonics.com/ Was using Sony MDR-V6's but couldn't get enough isolation to know exactly what the mic was picking up. Eventually I'll opt for the custom fitted earpieces. If I had to do it over again I'd probably opt for the custom fitted ones right off the bat. __________________ Dean Sensui Exec Producer, Hawaii Goes Fishing

August 1st, 2005, 11:29 AM	#17
Brett Whited Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 91	Has anyone tried the 7506's little brother: the 7505s? Are they comparable to the 7506s? I like the compact design better, but if they aren't going to cancel any sound out (even a little bit) then I'll go for the 7506's. Thanks -Brett

August 1st, 2005, 12:22 PM	#18
Jos Svendsen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 221	I have been using the Ex29 (www.extremeheadphones.com) with a Canon Xl1s in a live bandsituation, and they are very good for this. In fact i found myself next to the bass stack without noticing it - exept for the pounding in my stomach. I later tried a nomal set of AKG D240's and they ware useless in this environment. It was a "normal" rockband in a small venue, so it was not death metal volume. I had no problem monitoring the sound from the XL1s, when the band was playing at a volume where you had to shout at full volume in order to be understood 20 feet from stage. The EX29 headphones has a somewhat undefined top, and are not usable as all round phones. But for monitoring in noisy environment they are perfect. And they look sort of StarTrekish However there are alternatives. Beyer Dynamic DT-770M gives more damping > 36 dBs and Vic Firth SIH1 less at 24 dBs.

August 8th, 2005, 10:03 AM	#21
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	I like the low impedance on those Exteme Headphones, which means most any type of consumer device would drive them to a high volume. The one issue I've had with the Beyers is their higher impedance, which means my cam can't drive them to the higher volume levels without a headphone amp, which I haven't picked up yet. I've seen some headphone amps in the $60 range. I found a couple of website forums where headphones and everything related to them are discussed by hobbiests, but I can't recall the addresses off the top of my head.

August 9th, 2005, 01:29 AM	#24
Jos Svendsen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 221	There is an interesting thing about these extreme isolation headphones, that makes you sympathize with deaf people. We all know the viewfinder-syndrome, where you are so occupied looking in the viewfinder, that you sort of ignores the rest of the world. This might be fatal, if you are recording events like live volcanoes or war. The extreme isolation headphones has the same effect. You drift into your own world of silence away from the real world. I was recording a theater performance - not very noisy, but I used my EX29 in order to be 101 % sure that the sound was good. I was adrift in a world of silence, that ended when my wife banged me on the head. She had tried to get in contact with me for 2-3 minutes, but I had an eye glued to my XL1s viewfinder and was using my EX29's, so I was totally lost. Since then she had her own pair pf Ex29's for use in her musicproduction with Apples Garageband, meaning that entering a room in our home late in the evening is done with a blinking of the lights. Because either I am NLE'ing or she is Garagebanding and in both cases lost to the real world. The kid has learned to poke mum or dad with a little pointy finger, when we have the funny headphones on. He likes the reaction of num or dad going into heart-attack-mode.

August 9th, 2005, 02:15 AM	#25
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	I'm not sure about this but doesn't hearing have something to do with balance, such as when you walk?

August 30th, 2005, 01:12 PM	#29
Jos Svendsen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 221	All these headphones have a quite tight fit i order to make sure sound is not leaking in. It took me some time to get used to the EX29s. Cheers

September 17th, 2005, 03:54 AM	#30
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	Just wanted to say that I've finally been able to get what I wanted out of the Beyer DT770M. The problem I had at first was that they seemed to isolate pretty good but the camcorder wouldn't drive them to enough volume. Well, now I've used them with a Sound Devices MixPre. With the SD headphone level set at about 1/3 of max, I get all the volume I need. And I can really see how these phones do offer very significant isolation as compared to the Sony 7506s. As far as how they sound, I can't really say yet. My main goal was to be able to make sure I was getting distortion in loud environments, and that I think the Beyers will do. My initial impression is that the Beyers are weak in the mids but I wonder if this may help if you ever have to mix with phones. For example, I've heard it said that if you mix with phones (dialog and music) and the vocals sound good with phones, that the vocals will be too low in reality. So if phones are weak on mids, perhaps they will give a vocals mix that is more like what you'll get with near field monitors. Anyone care to comment on this hypothesis?