Portable Recorder

Jay Massengill · May 27th, 2010, 04:08 PM

There are a number of threads regarding how to improve the sound recording of these AGC equipped dSLR's, both in this audio section and in the section specific to the T2i on this board.
I think it would improve the sound, simply because you're feeding it a much stronger signal, but I haven't personally done this yet. It should be an adequate improvement to provide you with sync comparison of the two audio tracks.
Since it's essential that you get an external recorder anyway, it will only be the cost of a simple mini-TRS to mini-TRS cable in order to at least test out the improvement. You'll need to keep the output volume from the recorder very low since it is substantially hotter than what the camera input is expecting.
The other alternative is to add an inexpensive mic to the camera, just to improve the sound enough to get sync but without having to tether the two devices or give up the headphone jack on your sound recorder.
There are threads regarding these mics too.

Hopefully the image is great! There are also lots of threads here about lenses.

Bruce Foreman · May 27th, 2010, 04:56 PM

No.

But using a separate recorder is not as bad as you would think. I just finished a project for a "challenge" using the 7D and a ZoomH2. I do the following (and cut it all out in editing):

I announce to the whole crew "Sound on (my sound guy confirms the H2 is recording - or I've started it myself if no sound guy is present), camera "rolling", ...and ACTION!"

I also had a Rode SVM on the 7D just to provide better audio for synch and as a backup in case the H2 audio failed (it didn't).

I edit the H2 audio using the free program Audacity, trimming just before the word ACTION and boosting audio levels there if necessary, then export it as a WAV file. I do this for each scene or "take" I want to use.

In the NLE (I still use Pinnacle Studio 12.1) I put the WAV file on the separate audio track and drag it until the waveform peaks on the word ACTION are aligned. When I can hear it with the least "echo" then I can mute the camera's audio and I have synch that works. At that point I can trim the clip to the "IN" point I want and trim at the "OUT" point.

When I do this I'm using the ZoomH2 as if it were an external mic. I've found that for ambient sound and dialog it's built in mics do an incredibly clear job if you put it in close like you should any mic. Mine is usually stand mounted and placed as close to the talent as I can get it and just out of view of the camera.

Should work the same way for you with the T2i. As a matter of fact I'm counting on that.

I just picked up a T2i as something lighter to cart around and as backup for the 7D.

Burt Alcantara · May 27th, 2010, 07:08 PM

I spent the day recording hours of video. In the end, the ambient sound was...ok. I don't know what I did yesterday to create such horrible sounds but today it was..ok.

I will still get an external mic to start with and then a recorder. As all of this is new to me. I discovered that I can't see the LCD very well (I have weird vision). On top of that I found the kit lens to work much better then my 28-135 IS, but that's just the way I ended up shooting today. I would probably want a 10mm but that's way out of budget so a mic will be next.

Thanks,
Burt

Zachary Mattson · June 3rd, 2010, 12:02 PM

Hey Burt,

Just a few audio tips I would provide for those of us DSLR users on the cheap:

1) if you are going to use on board audio or mic plugged in to the camera, there are ways to remove a good portion of the hiss in post. Audacity has noise removal, and there is a pretty good tutorial at this link: YouTube - remove unwanted noise from audio / video Audacity Sony Vegas otherwise you can use the track eq in your NLE to remove certain frequencies if the audacity trick removes too much noise. I have used both methods, and they both work quite well.

2) if you buy an audio recorder, and want to plug the line in to the camera, you can trick the auto gain by plugging a mic in to one side, and download some white noise to an ipod, and plug that in to the other side. Then in post, just remove the channel that had the white noise, and you have yourself some pretty clean audio.

Hope this helps!

EDIT: I found an incredibly cheap workaround for suggestion #2. Not sure if you have an external recorder or not, but this link shows a great way to eliminate the hiss without any external recorder, just a splitter and an ipod. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91xw_NX0Qm8 I'm going to Radio Shack tonight to hook this up. Just thought I'd let you know.

Doug Carlyn · June 3rd, 2010, 05:06 PM

Your $100 dollar option arrived this week... the new Zoom H1. No XLR inputs, though...

http://www.samsontech.com/products/p...fm?prodID=2053

James Millward · June 14th, 2010, 04:45 AM

Thanks for the heads up on the h1.

Thats exactly what im looking for to go with my 550d.

Check out the literature too, its amazing just how much of an impact video on Dslrs has made. They even include it as a use in the sales blurb.

I can live without the XLR for that price.

James

Andrew Dean · June 14th, 2010, 06:28 AM

Its not so different from other suggestions, but my new workflow is

----
Cameraman yells Cameras rolling!
(sound person yells) "Audio track XX!" and claps a clapper (or hands) off camera. It gets recorded in the sound recorder AND the on-camera audio.
-----

Even if i have an AD logging takes, i dont need them to note down the audio sync if its on the audio track, and the sound person is reading right off the recorder, so its never wrong... even if they did a false start or something and got file numbers off from where they were.

If you aren't using pluralize, it makes post so easy. Rough together the takes you like using the camera audio, then when you go to edit, play the video and within a few seconds it tells you exactly what audio file to grab. Mark in points on the clap on the video and audio and you have sync.

I'm looking forward to dualeyes, but honestly, its not the sync that was the problem with me, it was the file management. As long as I can put my hands directly on the audio track for a take, i'm good.

7 more days until my dr680 arrives! I'm stoked!

June 3rd, 2010, 12:02 PM	#19
Zachary Mattson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 43	Hey Burt, Just a few audio tips I would provide for those of us DSLR users on the cheap: 1) if you are going to use on board audio or mic plugged in to the camera, there are ways to remove a good portion of the hiss in post. Audacity has noise removal, and there is a pretty good tutorial at this link: YouTube - remove unwanted noise from audio / video Audacity Sony Vegas otherwise you can use the track eq in your NLE to remove certain frequencies if the audacity trick removes too much noise. I have used both methods, and they both work quite well. 2) if you buy an audio recorder, and want to plug the line in to the camera, you can trick the auto gain by plugging a mic in to one side, and download some white noise to an ipod, and plug that in to the other side. Then in post, just remove the channel that had the white noise, and you have yourself some pretty clean audio. Hope this helps! EDIT: I found an incredibly cheap workaround for suggestion #2. Not sure if you have an external recorder or not, but this link shows a great way to eliminate the hiss without any external recorder, just a splitter and an ipod. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91xw_NX0Qm8 I'm going to Radio Shack tonight to hook this up. Just thought I'd let you know. Last edited by Zachary Mattson; June 3rd, 2010 at 01:44 PM.

May 27th, 2010, 04:08 PM	#16
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	There are a number of threads regarding how to improve the sound recording of these AGC equipped dSLR's, both in this audio section and in the section specific to the T2i on this board. I think it would improve the sound, simply because you're feeding it a much stronger signal, but I haven't personally done this yet. It should be an adequate improvement to provide you with sync comparison of the two audio tracks. Since it's essential that you get an external recorder anyway, it will only be the cost of a simple mini-TRS to mini-TRS cable in order to at least test out the improvement. You'll need to keep the output volume from the recorder very low since it is substantially hotter than what the camera input is expecting. The other alternative is to add an inexpensive mic to the camera, just to improve the sound enough to get sync but without having to tether the two devices or give up the headphone jack on your sound recorder. There are threads regarding these mics too. Hopefully the image is great! There are also lots of threads here about lenses.

May 27th, 2010, 04:56 PM	#17
Bruce Foreman Trustee Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: San Angelo Texas Posts: 1,518	No. But using a separate recorder is not as bad as you would think. I just finished a project for a "challenge" using the 7D and a ZoomH2. I do the following (and cut it all out in editing): I announce to the whole crew "Sound on (my sound guy confirms the H2 is recording - or I've started it myself if no sound guy is present), camera "rolling", ...and ACTION!" I also had a Rode SVM on the 7D just to provide better audio for synch and as a backup in case the H2 audio failed (it didn't). I edit the H2 audio using the free program Audacity, trimming just before the word ACTION and boosting audio levels there if necessary, then export it as a WAV file. I do this for each scene or "take" I want to use. In the NLE (I still use Pinnacle Studio 12.1) I put the WAV file on the separate audio track and drag it until the waveform peaks on the word ACTION are aligned. When I can hear it with the least "echo" then I can mute the camera's audio and I have synch that works. At that point I can trim the clip to the "IN" point I want and trim at the "OUT" point. When I do this I'm using the ZoomH2 as if it were an external mic. I've found that for ambient sound and dialog it's built in mics do an incredibly clear job if you put it in close like you should any mic. Mine is usually stand mounted and placed as close to the talent as I can get it and just out of view of the camera. Should work the same way for you with the T2i. As a matter of fact I'm counting on that. I just picked up a T2i as something lighter to cart around and as backup for the 7D.

May 27th, 2010, 07:08 PM	#18
Burt Alcantara Regular Crew Join Date: May 2010 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 55	I spent the day recording hours of video. In the end, the ambient sound was...ok. I don't know what I did yesterday to create such horrible sounds but today it was..ok. I will still get an external mic to start with and then a recorder. As all of this is new to me. I discovered that I can't see the LCD very well (I have weird vision). On top of that I found the kit lens to work much better then my 28-135 IS, but that's just the way I ended up shooting today. I would probably want a 10mm but that's way out of budget so a mic will be next. Thanks, Burt

June 3rd, 2010, 05:06 PM	#20
Doug Carlyn New Boot Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: NY, NY Posts: 8	Your $100 dollar option arrived this week... the new Zoom H1. No XLR inputs, though... http://www.samsontech.com/products/p...fm?prodID=2053

June 14th, 2010, 04:45 AM	#21
James Millward Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: England Posts: 53	Thanks for the heads up on the h1. Thats exactly what im looking for to go with my 550d. Check out the literature too, its amazing just how much of an impact video on Dslrs has made. They even include it as a use in the sales blurb. I can live without the XLR for that price. James

June 14th, 2010, 06:28 AM	#22
Andrew Dean Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Motukarara, New Zealand Posts: 475	Its not so different from other suggestions, but my new workflow is ---- Cameraman yells Cameras rolling! (sound person yells) "Audio track XX!" and claps a clapper (or hands) off camera. It gets recorded in the sound recorder AND the on-camera audio. ----- Even if i have an AD logging takes, i dont need them to note down the audio sync if its on the audio track, and the sound person is reading right off the recorder, so its never wrong... even if they did a false start or something and got file numbers off from where they were. If you aren't using pluralize, it makes post so easy. Rough together the takes you like using the camera audio, then when you go to edit, play the video and within a few seconds it tells you exactly what audio file to grab. Mark in points on the clap on the video and audio and you have sync. I'm looking forward to dualeyes, but honestly, its not the sync that was the problem with me, it was the file management. As long as I can put my hands directly on the audio track for a take, i'm good. 7 more days until my dr680 arrives! I'm stoked!