A "Which Pro-sumer Microphone" question. at DVinfo.net

Robin Lambert · May 18th, 2010, 02:11 PM

I've been using a Senny K6 / ME66 combo with my itsy bitsy Canon Legria HF11. The reason is simple, it has its own power supply, necessary since the HF11 only has an 1/8 input and no phantom.

However, since the whole point of the HF11 was to be portable and take up little/no room, having a microphone over twice as long as the camcorder is becoming a bit of a drawback, especially as it doesn't fit in the camerabag.

Can anyone recommend a hypercardiod or shotgun which is short, doesn't need phantom power and yet still sounds reasonable?

Battle Vaughan · May 18th, 2010, 03:50 PM

Sennheiser MKE400, about $200, bhphotovideo is one source. Nice mike, very surprising given it's small size. We used them on HV40's, works great. It is a 1/8 inch plug, not xlr, however. It is powered by a button battery.

Robin Lambert · May 19th, 2010, 03:36 AM

Thanks for that. I have played with the predecessor, the 300 and wasn't that impressed with it. Just a personal opinion but maybe I should go back and reconsider that one... cheers.

I was wondering if there was anyone who knew of a small, self-powered mic, like the K6 but a lot smaller, like the Audio Technica 875 size.

John Willett · May 19th, 2010, 06:14 AM

The directivity of a gun microphone is in direct proportion to its length - so using a shorter gun mic. will make it less directional.

The MKE 400 is a nicer beastie than the old MKE 300, by the way. And the 300 really needed to be modified to work with digital camcorders that throw out lots of RF interference (the 300 was designed in the days of analogue camcorders that didn't radiate so much mush).

Robin Lambert · May 19th, 2010, 09:27 AM

Well, if anyone knows about Sennheiser you would, John. I'll take your word on the 400 being better than the 300 and it will now be on the "to consider" list.

I'm not too worried about the directionality of the microphone, more concerned about its size! The whole idea of me getting the HF11 was to have a transportable camcorder which didn't weigh a ton. Something to carry "off duty" giving me the ability to do good stuff without upsetting the missus and spoiling the holiday. Of course the sound was the weak link. For some stuff, I've got a lovely wired lavalier which gives remarkably good sound but, of course, you can't always put a clip mic on someone, which is why I'm looking for a hand-held mic, which I can point in the direction I want.

Robin Davies-Rollinson · May 19th, 2010, 10:45 AM

Robin,
If you need a mic to fit on the camera, you could consider the Canon DM100.
I'm using it for most of my grab stuff and it's surprisingly good.
I also use the AT897, but not on the camera...

Robin Lambert · May 19th, 2010, 11:06 AM

Thanks Robin,

A couple of questions: Can you take the mic off camera and use it as a separate mic? Secondly, have you compared it to the MKE400? It seems to be about the same price as the Sennheiser MKE400, so worth considering.

I would love to use the AT897 but it's only marginally shorter than the baseball bat combo I'm using at the moment, so I don't know if I can justify the expense. I'd ideally like something about the size of the AT875 but which doesn't require phantom power.

Robin Davies-Rollinson · May 19th, 2010, 02:21 PM

Robin,
You have to use the DM100 on the camera since it's fed into the mini-hot shoe.
I haven't tried the MKE400.
I'll be interested in seeing what you eventually choose!

Robin Lambert · May 20th, 2010, 03:03 AM

I want something the size of the MKH50, which sounds like a Schoeps CMIT5U, is powered like the AT897 and costs the same as the Azden ECZ.

I also want a night of passion with Claudia Schiffer but it looks like I'll be disappointed on both counts!

Min Lee · May 20th, 2010, 06:01 AM

I’m in the similar situation, I want a compact XLR Mic that I can use both on camera as well as with my wireless plug on transmitter. Have you consider the ME64 capsule? lt’s cardioid but it’ll cut down the size to roughly 8" with the K6 as oppose to about 12" with the 66.

One other off the wall solution I’m considering is the Beyerdynamic M201 tg. It’s a hypercardioid dynamic mic primary use for drums. Since it’s dynamic, it doesn’t require power, but I've read it has sensitive like a condenser. It’s roughly 6.29” long. lt has rave reviews for use on snares and mediocre on vocals but that might be sufficient as a general purpose mic.

I haven’t use either mic. Let me know which mic you end up choosing.

John Willett · May 20th, 2010, 10:23 AM

Another alternative is the small Sennheiser ME 36.

This was not designed as a camera mic. but I think Rycote do a special suspension to make it one.

This mic. was used as the mic. on BBC Question Time before they moved over to tie mics and poorer sound quality.

Worth a thought.

Also - didn't Ambient do a tiny camera mic. of similar size?

Robin Lambert · May 20th, 2010, 12:30 PM

Sennheiser ME36... Phantom powering... damn! Thanks for the suggestion though John.

The only microphone I can find from Ambient is a figure 8, which isn't what I need.

Min, I'd thought about the ME64 but a cardiod pattern is a bit wide for what I want. I've got an MKH50 which I use with my big toy and I find that's about as wide as I would like to go.

Guy McLoughlin · May 20th, 2010, 01:36 PM

The best small self-powered shotgun that I've heard was the Rode Video Mic, which has a surprisingly full sound.

Myself, I hate the sound of inexpensive shotguns when used in small indoor spaces ( way too much echo from the walls and ceiling ), so I prefer to add a good portable mic pre-amp ( I use a BeachTek passive adapter with the Sound Devices MixPre field mixer, though today I would consider one of the JuiceLink boxes as a cheaper and more compact alternative ) and then use a professional condenser pencil mic ( AT4053B is my mic of choice ) for indoor recording. The sound from this type of mic is unbeatable.

Robin Lambert · May 21st, 2010, 01:01 AM

Gotta disagree about the Rode Videomic, had one once, worst sound I've ever had, the Sennheiser MKE300 was much better and, as John points out, that has been improved in the MKE400 which seems to be the way I'm heading if I can't find anything else.

Guy, In an ideal world I would use my MKH50 through my Sound Devices 302 but, as I pointed out, this is for a small AVCHD camcorder, on holiday, just for fun.

Guy McLoughlin · May 21st, 2010, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin Lambert

Gotta disagree about the Rode Videomic, had one once, worst sound I've ever had, the Sennheiser MKE300 was much better

Then we will have to agree to disagree here, as I find the MKE300 and MKE400 very thin sounding and lacking in lower end compared to the Rode VideoMic. I find the same with almost all of the lower end Sennheiser audio gear, especially the Sennheiser me66 k6 shotgun, which I do not understand why anyone would buy this mic when the Rode NTG-1/2 mic has far better sound at almost half the price.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin Lambert

Guy, In an ideal world I would use my MKH50 through my Sound Devices 302 but, as I pointed out, this is for a small AVCHD camcorder, on holiday, just for fun.

Which is why I was recommending the Rode VideoMic. It`s inexpensive, and in my own personal opinion records very good audio for it`s price range.

May 18th, 2010, 02:11 PM	#1
Robin Lambert Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: London Posts: 70	A "Which Pro-sumer Microphone" question. I've been using a Senny K6 / ME66 combo with my itsy bitsy Canon Legria HF11. The reason is simple, it has its own power supply, necessary since the HF11 only has an 1/8 input and no phantom. However, since the whole point of the HF11 was to be portable and take up little/no room, having a microphone over twice as long as the camcorder is becoming a bit of a drawback, especially as it doesn't fit in the camerabag. Can anyone recommend a hypercardiod or shotgun which is short, doesn't need phantom power and yet still sounds reasonable?

May 19th, 2010, 06:14 AM	#4
John Willett Major Player Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oxfordshire, UK Posts: 976	The directivity of a gun microphone is in direct proportion to its length - so using a shorter gun mic. will make it less directional. The MKE 400 is a nicer beastie than the old MKE 300, by the way. And the 300 really needed to be modified to work with digital camcorders that throw out lots of RF interference (the 300 was designed in the days of analogue camcorders that didn't radiate so much mush). __________________ John Willett - Sound-Link ProAudio and Circle Sound Services President: Fédération Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

May 20th, 2010, 10:23 AM	#11
John Willett Major Player Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oxfordshire, UK Posts: 976	Another alternative is the small Sennheiser ME 36. This was not designed as a camera mic. but I think Rycote do a special suspension to make it one. This mic. was used as the mic. on BBC Question Time before they moved over to tie mics and poorer sound quality. Worth a thought. Also - didn't Ambient do a tiny camera mic. of similar size? __________________ John Willett - Sound-Link ProAudio and Circle Sound Services President: Fédération Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons

May 18th, 2010, 03:50 PM	#2
Battle Vaughan Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami, FL USA Posts: 1,505	Sennheiser MKE400, about $200, bhphotovideo is one source. Nice mike, very surprising given it's small size. We used them on HV40's, works great. It is a 1/8 inch plug, not xlr, however. It is powered by a button battery.

May 19th, 2010, 03:36 AM	#3
Robin Lambert Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: London Posts: 70	Thanks for that. I have played with the predecessor, the 300 and wasn't that impressed with it. Just a personal opinion but maybe I should go back and reconsider that one... cheers. I was wondering if there was anyone who knew of a small, self-powered mic, like the K6 but a lot smaller, like the Audio Technica 875 size.

May 19th, 2010, 09:27 AM	#5
Robin Lambert Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: London Posts: 70	Well, if anyone knows about Sennheiser you would, John. I'll take your word on the 400 being better than the 300 and it will now be on the "to consider" list. I'm not too worried about the directionality of the microphone, more concerned about its size! The whole idea of me getting the HF11 was to have a transportable camcorder which didn't weigh a ton. Something to carry "off duty" giving me the ability to do good stuff without upsetting the missus and spoiling the holiday. Of course the sound was the weak link. For some stuff, I've got a lovely wired lavalier which gives remarkably good sound but, of course, you can't always put a clip mic on someone, which is why I'm looking for a hand-held mic, which I can point in the direction I want.

May 19th, 2010, 10:45 AM	#6
Robin Davies-Rollinson Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES Posts: 1,215	Robin, If you need a mic to fit on the camera, you could consider the Canon DM100. I'm using it for most of my grab stuff and it's surprisingly good. I also use the AT897, but not on the camera...

May 19th, 2010, 11:06 AM	#7
Robin Lambert Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: London Posts: 70	Thanks Robin, A couple of questions: Can you take the mic off camera and use it as a separate mic? Secondly, have you compared it to the MKE400? It seems to be about the same price as the Sennheiser MKE400, so worth considering. I would love to use the AT897 but it's only marginally shorter than the baseball bat combo I'm using at the moment, so I don't know if I can justify the expense. I'd ideally like something about the size of the AT875 but which doesn't require phantom power.

May 19th, 2010, 02:21 PM	#8
Robin Davies-Rollinson Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES Posts: 1,215	Robin, You have to use the DM100 on the camera since it's fed into the mini-hot shoe. I haven't tried the MKE400. I'll be interested in seeing what you eventually choose!

May 20th, 2010, 03:03 AM	#9
Robin Lambert Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: London Posts: 70	I want something the size of the MKH50, which sounds like a Schoeps CMIT5U, is powered like the AT897 and costs the same as the Azden ECZ. I also want a night of passion with Claudia Schiffer but it looks like I'll be disappointed on both counts!

May 20th, 2010, 06:01 AM	#10
Min Lee Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 200	I’m in the similar situation, I want a compact XLR Mic that I can use both on camera as well as with my wireless plug on transmitter. Have you consider the ME64 capsule? lt’s cardioid but it’ll cut down the size to roughly 8" with the K6 as oppose to about 12" with the 66. One other off the wall solution I’m considering is the Beyerdynamic M201 tg. It’s a hypercardioid dynamic mic primary use for drums. Since it’s dynamic, it doesn’t require power, but I've read it has sensitive like a condenser. It’s roughly 6.29” long. lt has rave reviews for use on snares and mediocre on vocals but that might be sufficient as a general purpose mic. I haven’t use either mic. Let me know which mic you end up choosing.

May 20th, 2010, 12:30 PM	#12
Robin Lambert Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: London Posts: 70	Sennheiser ME36... Phantom powering... damn! Thanks for the suggestion though John. The only microphone I can find from Ambient is a figure 8, which isn't what I need. Min, I'd thought about the ME64 but a cardiod pattern is a bit wide for what I want. I've got an MKH50 which I use with my big toy and I find that's about as wide as I would like to go.

May 20th, 2010, 01:36 PM	#13
Guy McLoughlin Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 287	The best small self-powered shotgun that I've heard was the Rode Video Mic, which has a surprisingly full sound. Myself, I hate the sound of inexpensive shotguns when used in small indoor spaces ( way too much echo from the walls and ceiling ), so I prefer to add a good portable mic pre-amp ( I use a BeachTek passive adapter with the Sound Devices MixPre field mixer, though today I would consider one of the JuiceLink boxes as a cheaper and more compact alternative ) and then use a professional condenser pencil mic ( AT4053B is my mic of choice ) for indoor recording. The sound from this type of mic is unbeatable.

May 21st, 2010, 01:01 AM	#14
Robin Lambert Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: London Posts: 70	Gotta disagree about the Rode Videomic, had one once, worst sound I've ever had, the Sennheiser MKE300 was much better and, as John points out, that has been improved in the MKE400 which seems to be the way I'm heading if I can't find anything else. Guy, In an ideal world I would use my MKH50 through my Sound Devices 302 but, as I pointed out, this is for a small AVCHD camcorder, on holiday, just for fun.