Mics for gl2 at DVinfo.net

Dale Guthormsen · July 12th, 2005, 03:25 PM

I have been slowly acquiring all my kit over the last 18 months, I am just about there with a few more purchases, a shot gun mic being important for me to have by September. I have been doing some homework on mics but bottom line is there are to many to mack a decision about. It will be used for primarily outdoor use and to focus on specific noises at a distance.

One question i have yet to sort out is Balanced or Unbalanced. What is that about?

Do you have some specific suggestions??

Dale Guthormsen

Ken Tanaka · July 12th, 2005, 05:44 PM

I've moved your question here for better topical exposure.

Generally speaking if you're looking for a professional-quality mic you're looking for a balanced connection design. There are many shotgun-design mics available across a broad range of prices. The Sennheiser line is one of the most popular, with the ME-16 being one of the biggest sellers and or reasonable price/performance for modest budgets.

Good luck!

Don Palomaki · July 13th, 2005, 04:56 AM

Balanced vs. unbalanced?

Balanced implies an electrical connection method that uses two conductors plus a ground to carry the signal. One signal lead is -, the other is +, and it provides cancellation of noise picked up by the cables. It is expecially good for longer (more than a few feet) connection cables and use in electrically noisy locations Z(e.g., with lots of power, lighting, cables, motors, etc., like studios). Thus it is used by professionals.

Unbalanced is is a simple electrical conenction involving a signal wire and a ground, like most consumer audio. While cheaper to install and use, it is prone to noise pickup, especially when cables are longer and signal levels are small, as with microphone output. Unbalancd connections are usually OK for short ( a few feet) runs, and longer in electrically quiet locations.

Better microphones normally use balanced connections, that is what the market demands. Consume gear is price point driven and unbalanced is the common method because it works well enough.

Note that shotgun microphones to not "reach out" further or zoom in an opetical sense, they just reduce sound pickup from the sides and rear, and often have higher internal amplification. For shoud quality there is no substitute for having a microphone close to the sournd source..

Unbalanced mics usually work OK on camcorders where the conenction is short. With the Gl1/2, the MIC connection at the camcorder is unbalanced, so a short unbalanced connection to an adapter will be necessary in any case (althought the GL2/MA300 combination makes it very short).

There are a wide variety of shotgun mics available, at a wide variety of price points. Some offer unbalanced connection options built in, others require an adapter. In general sound quality corelates with price.

Sennheiser is a favorite of many profesionals, especailly the ME66. Their MKE300 is a modest priced unbalanced shotgun intended for the serous amateur camcorder owner market, but not professionals.

Audio Technica offers several models both profesional and consumer at slightly lower pricepoints than Sennheiser.

Azden offers several popular models at yet lower price point market. And there are other makes as well.

Recommendations will depend on your budget and specific applicaitons.

.

Graham Bernard · July 13th, 2005, 05:14 AM

RODE Video mic . .er . .OUTSTANDING! . .And I DO have a Senni 66 to compare it to.

http://www.rodemicrophones.com/video...u=videomicMenu

The price is a no brainer!

Grazie

Ty Ford · July 13th, 2005, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Guthormsen

I have been slowly acquiring all my kit over the last 18 months, I am just about there with a few more purchases, a shot gun mic being important for me to have by September. I have been doing some homework on mics but bottom line is there are to many to mack a decision about. It will be used for primarily outdoor use and to focus on specific noises at a distance.

One question i have yet to sort out is Balanced or Unbalanced. What is that about? Do you have some specific suggestions??
Dale Guthormsen

Why do you want a shotgun mic? Please check out the MP4 tutorial in the video folder in my online archive at www.tyford.com. It'll help you sort out what mics to choose for what jobs.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Steven Davis · July 13th, 2005, 09:50 AM

I have this http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wi...519/index.html and love it. I still don't think I have unlocked the potential.

Ty Ford · July 13th, 2005, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Davis

I have this http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wi...519/index.html and love it. I still don't think I have unlocked the potential.

Yah, the AT 835ST is a good choice. Are you camera mounting it? If so, does it's length cause any problems with your camera?

Thanks ,

Ty Ford

Dale Guthormsen · July 13th, 2005, 05:59 PM

Thanks everyone for your input. Yye, I went to your site and found it very useful and informative. thank all of you for taking the time to help others!!
Basicly I need to pick up particular sounds from a persons voice to natural sounds without drawing in a lot of sound from the sides.
Am I correct in felling the shotgun mic is the best choice, I will not always be close.
In thepast using the on board mics in my sony and my gl2 I have to be a post doctor to get things semi right. I ficured i needed a narrower field.

Dale Guthormsen

Ty Ford · July 13th, 2005, 07:15 PM

Depends on how close.

Depends on how noisy your camera is (if you plan on cmera mounting the mic)

REgards,

Ty

Steven Davis · July 13th, 2005, 07:18 PM

I know it looks like a military weapon, but this works for me.

http://droptodesign.com/test/camera_setup/index.htm

Adam Stokoe · July 22nd, 2005, 12:43 PM

Hi all,

I was just looking at the RODE mic when I decided to drop back here and see what you guys thought of it. I have already checked out the sound files on Ty's site which were really helpful - but this question just doesn't seem to be answered anywhere (probably because it's so dumb!)

If the RODE Videomic is mounted to the hotshoe does it also plug into the audio in on the cam? I ask because having a cam mounted mic is not always the best way to get the sound I need and I would ideally like a mic that can work both on and off the camera. I know the RODE has internal power (9v) but does that mean it can be used without sitting in the hotshoe?

(told you it was a dumb question!) Oh and I have spotted the RODE NTG-2 which is clearly for use on a boom arm, but as it's $200 more I was hoping to achieve a similar result for less cost (ain't we all!?)

Cheers,
Adam

Douglas Spotted Eagle · July 22nd, 2005, 01:08 PM

The RodeVideoMic will function whether mounted on a lightstand, mic stand, or camera. It is self powered. The only concern would be cable length, and transforming if you're gonna be running any length.

Ty Ford · July 22nd, 2005, 01:09 PM

I said the VideoMic hot shoe was non-conductive on the video clip. It is non-conductive and you have to plug the mic in. It's a mini TRS that feeds mono to both channels.

Ty Ford

Graham Bernard · July 23rd, 2005, 03:08 AM

I used the RØDE screwed/sitting on a tiny flexi camera tripod - about 6" high. Pointed this at the talking talent about 5' > 6' away. Camera at about 15'. Plugged the male 3.5mm mic output into the "bullet" 3.5 to XLR adaptor ( well thought out RØDE!) brought this back through a 10 metre coil of balanced cable directly to my XM2 XLR adaptor.

Results? Good levels and quality. Oh yes, there was an air conditioning unit whiring away in the background - but the captured sound is very usable, even before I would consider/need to use Sound Forge to remove/reduce the AirCon!

Grazie

Ty Ford · July 23rd, 2005, 07:57 AM

Rode is very innovative. The mini tripod and unbalanced to balanced converter are both good ideas.

I'd rather use my own boom and hang it off a C-stand above the talent than use the tripod. Because the boom mounted above and the mic points downward (usually) there's less of a chance of picking up stray background sounds.

Ty Ford

July 12th, 2005, 03:25 PM	#1
Dale Guthormsen Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 3,048	Mics for gl2 I have been slowly acquiring all my kit over the last 18 months, I am just about there with a few more purchases, a shot gun mic being important for me to have by September. I have been doing some homework on mics but bottom line is there are to many to mack a decision about. It will be used for primarily outdoor use and to focus on specific noises at a distance. One question i have yet to sort out is Balanced or Unbalanced. What is that about? Do you have some specific suggestions?? Dale Guthormsen

July 12th, 2005, 05:44 PM	#2
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	I've moved your question here for better topical exposure. Generally speaking if you're looking for a professional-quality mic you're looking for a balanced connection design. There are many shotgun-design mics available across a broad range of prices. The Sennheiser line is one of the most popular, with the ME-16 being one of the biggest sellers and or reasonable price/performance for modest budgets. Good luck! __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

July 13th, 2005, 04:56 AM	#3
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	Balanced vs. unbalanced? Balanced implies an electrical connection method that uses two conductors plus a ground to carry the signal. One signal lead is -, the other is +, and it provides cancellation of noise picked up by the cables. It is expecially good for longer (more than a few feet) connection cables and use in electrically noisy locations Z(e.g., with lots of power, lighting, cables, motors, etc., like studios). Thus it is used by professionals. Unbalanced is is a simple electrical conenction involving a signal wire and a ground, like most consumer audio. While cheaper to install and use, it is prone to noise pickup, especially when cables are longer and signal levels are small, as with microphone output. Unbalancd connections are usually OK for short ( a few feet) runs, and longer in electrically quiet locations. Better microphones normally use balanced connections, that is what the market demands. Consume gear is price point driven and unbalanced is the common method because it works well enough. Note that shotgun microphones to not "reach out" further or zoom in an opetical sense, they just reduce sound pickup from the sides and rear, and often have higher internal amplification. For shoud quality there is no substitute for having a microphone close to the sournd source.. Unbalanced mics usually work OK on camcorders where the conenction is short. With the Gl1/2, the MIC connection at the camcorder is unbalanced, so a short unbalanced connection to an adapter will be necessary in any case (althought the GL2/MA300 combination makes it very short). There are a wide variety of shotgun mics available, at a wide variety of price points. Some offer unbalanced connection options built in, others require an adapter. In general sound quality corelates with price. Sennheiser is a favorite of many profesionals, especailly the ME66. Their MKE300 is a modest priced unbalanced shotgun intended for the serous amateur camcorder owner market, but not professionals. Audio Technica offers several models both profesional and consumer at slightly lower pricepoints than Sennheiser. Azden offers several popular models at yet lower price point market. And there are other makes as well. Recommendations will depend on your budget and specific applicaitons. . __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

July 13th, 2005, 09:50 AM	#6
Steven Davis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,065	I have this http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wi...519/index.html and love it. I still don't think I have unlocked the potential. __________________ What happens if I push the 'Red' button?

July 13th, 2005, 05:59 PM	#8
Dale Guthormsen Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 3,048	mic Thanks everyone for your input. Yye, I went to your site and found it very useful and informative. thank all of you for taking the time to help others!! Basicly I need to pick up particular sounds from a persons voice to natural sounds without drawing in a lot of sound from the sides. Am I correct in felling the shotgun mic is the best choice, I will not always be close. In thepast using the on board mics in my sony and my gl2 I have to be a post doctor to get things semi right. I ficured i needed a narrower field. Dale Guthormsen

July 13th, 2005, 05:14 AM	#4
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	RODE Video mic . .er . .OUTSTANDING! . .And I DO have a Senni 66 to compare it to. http://www.rodemicrophones.com/video...u=videomicMenu The price is a no brainer! Grazie

July 13th, 2005, 07:15 PM	#9
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	Depends on how close. Depends on how noisy your camera is (if you plan on cmera mounting the mic) REgards, Ty __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

July 13th, 2005, 07:18 PM	#10
Steven Davis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,065	I know it looks like a military weapon, but this works for me. http://droptodesign.com/test/camera_setup/index.htm __________________ What happens if I push the 'Red' button?

July 22nd, 2005, 12:43 PM	#11
Adam Stokoe Tourist Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3	The Rode option Hi all, I was just looking at the RODE mic when I decided to drop back here and see what you guys thought of it. I have already checked out the sound files on Ty's site which were really helpful - but this question just doesn't seem to be answered anywhere (probably because it's so dumb!) If the RODE Videomic is mounted to the hotshoe does it also plug into the audio in on the cam? I ask because having a cam mounted mic is not always the best way to get the sound I need and I would ideally like a mic that can work both on and off the camera. I know the RODE has internal power (9v) but does that mean it can be used without sitting in the hotshoe? (told you it was a dumb question!) Oh and I have spotted the RODE NTG-2 which is clearly for use on a boom arm, but as it's $200 more I was hoping to achieve a similar result for less cost (ain't we all!?) Cheers, Adam

July 22nd, 2005, 01:08 PM	#12
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	The RodeVideoMic will function whether mounted on a lightstand, mic stand, or camera. It is self powered. The only concern would be cable length, and transforming if you're gonna be running any length. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

July 22nd, 2005, 01:09 PM	#13
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	I said the VideoMic hot shoe was non-conductive on the video clip. It is non-conductive and you have to plug the mic in. It's a mini TRS that feeds mono to both channels. Ty Ford __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

July 23rd, 2005, 03:08 AM	#14
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	I used the RØDE screwed/sitting on a tiny flexi camera tripod - about 6" high. Pointed this at the talking talent about 5' > 6' away. Camera at about 15'. Plugged the male 3.5mm mic output into the "bullet" 3.5 to XLR adaptor ( well thought out RØDE!) brought this back through a 10 metre coil of balanced cable directly to my XM2 XLR adaptor. Results? Good levels and quality. Oh yes, there was an air conditioning unit whiring away in the background - but the captured sound is very usable, even before I would consider/need to use Sound Forge to remove/reduce the AirCon! Grazie

July 23rd, 2005, 07:57 AM	#15
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	Rode is very innovative. The mini tripod and unbalanced to balanced converter are both good ideas. I'd rather use my own boom and hang it off a C-stand above the talent than use the tripod. Because the boom mounted above and the mic points downward (usually) there's less of a chance of picking up stray background sounds. Ty Ford __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog