Which Mic Pre-Amp at DVinfo.net

Dwight Flynn · July 2nd, 2005, 01:50 AM

Thinking of doing the home studio thing (too expensive over time to run out and rent space). I was wondering which mic pre-amp to get. I am fairly new to this particular area (i.e. separate mic pre-amp), so I started doing some digging around. The prices range wildly, but I am not convinced that price and quality is a linear one in this case. For instance, I have seen the Avalon AD2022, which is almost $3,000. It good, but 3k good (maybe not). Any recommendations for a dual mic pre-amp or better in the $500 range that approximates (or dare I say exceeds) the Avalon AD2022. BTW, I use a range of mics for different projects, Rode NT-1A, Marshall, AT 897, Beyerdynamic, etc (not too expensive, but good quality). Help.

Ty Ford · July 2nd, 2005, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Flynn

Thinking of doing the home studio thing (too expensive over time to run out and rent space). I was wondering which mic pre-amp to get. I am fairly new to this particular area (i.e. separate mic pre-amp), so I started doing some digging around. The prices range wildly, but I am not convinced that price and quality is a linear one in this case. For instance, I have seen the Avalon AD2022, which is almost $3,000. It good, but 3k good (maybe not). Any recommendations for a dual mic pre-amp or better in the $500 range that approximates (or dare I say exceeds) the Avalon AD2022. BTW, I use a range of mics for different projects, Rode NT-1A, Marshall, AT 897, Beyerdynamic, etc (not too expensive, but good quality). Help.

Here's the thing. IT'S EXTREMELY IMPORTANT to consider the matching of mics and preamps. The combination of mic and preamp determine the sound and some mics and preamps do NOT play well together.

You might try one of Mark McQuilken's RNP preamps. Low cost. SOunds better than you'd expect it to for the price.

Regards,

Ty Ford

audio gear reviews are always available in my online archive

Dwight Flynn · July 2nd, 2005, 10:50 PM

Thanks Ty, I'll give your advice a try. BTW, any particular Mark McQuilken's RNP preamp in mind?

Ty Ford · July 3rd, 2005, 06:10 AM

I'm only aware of one.

http://www.fmraudio.com/RNP8380.htm

Regards,

Ty Ford

Nate Ford · July 4th, 2005, 12:15 PM

fmr's rnc compressor is the best thing you'll find in that price range too.

Dwight Flynn · July 4th, 2005, 01:24 PM

But I have heard that there are comparable dual pre-amps with good compressor and eq built in for the price range? I don't know, so I am just asking. Hey Spot which ones do you use?

Kelly Wilbur · July 4th, 2005, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

Here's the thing. IT'S EXTREMELY IMPORTANT to consider the matching of mics and preamps.

I've been involved in audio engineering with various recording studio setups for about 15 years and I've never heard anything about matching mics and preamps.

There are good and bad mics and good and bad preamps. The only matching issues would be quality (like using a great mic with a terrible preamp), but that only makes common sense.

Maybe I'm missing something and there is some application where you need to match a mic and preamp. If so, I'd like to know.

There are plenty of decent preamps at the $500 mark. Whether they stand up to an Avalon depends on who is listening and what you are recording. For instance, a lower noise floor will really make a difference if you are recording something will very wide dynamics. A slightly worse noise floor may not matter if you are recording something like a live concert and plan to rebroadcast it to television viewers.

Thanks,

Kelly

Steve House · July 4th, 2005, 02:28 PM

I'm not an expert by any means, but wouldn't "matching mics and preamps" mean that you are matching the nominal output level of the microphone to the nominal input sensitivity of the preamp? If the preamp wanted a -66db signal to drive it to 0VU (example: Canon XL2's XLR mic inputs), a mic with a -66db output at reference sound pressure levels would be the best mate.

Related to that, if you fed the mic to a field mixer with a line level output and you wanted to send it to the XL2's mic inputs, if the line level was the professional standard +4dbU you'd need to insert a -70db pad in the line to match the levels properly while if the mixer's output was at the -10db prosumer line level, a -55db pad would be the ticket.

As I wrote this was wondering if there's any problems with cascading attentuation in series? Could the -70db drop needed to lower that +4dbU line level down to the -66 mic level on the Canon, for example, be done with a -50db in-line pad plus activating the camera's built-in -20db mic input attentuator for a total of -70db without otherwise affecting the sound quality? What might be the advantages and disadvantages of doing that versus simply lowering the gain of the mixer?

Or am I totally confused....

Douglas Spotted Eagle · July 4th, 2005, 07:12 PM

I would take "matching mics and preamps" to mean combinations for what sound they offer, not for whether they "work" or not. For instance, my BK 4011's sound terrible through my Echo Mona's preamps, but sing sweet through my Avalon or my pet John Hardy.
I'm sure that if Ty meant something else, he'll chime right back in and set the thread straight. :-)

Dwight, for "serious" work that is destined for PBS or other high profile broadcast, where I'm making at least decent cash on the recording/producing, I use my Hardy M2 for nearly everything in those situations. I do also have a great Avalon 2022 that I'm also a fan of, but then that's a little more picky about what mics I use. An AT 4060 for instance, doesn't sound too good in the Avalon, as it takes on a lot of low mid mud. But through my Hardy, it's sweet, and rich.

Ty Ford · July 4th, 2005, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelly Wilbur

I've been involved in audio engineering with various recording studio setups for about 15 years and I've never heard anything about matching mics and preamps.

There are good and bad mics and good and bad preamps. The only matching issues would be quality (like using a great mic with a terrible preamp), but that only makes common sense.

Maybe I'm missing something and there is some application where you need to match a mic and preamp. If so, I'd like to know.
Kelly

No problem. You ARE missing something. Try a C414 into a Focustrite red 2. Then try it into a GML. Then try it into a Neve with a transformer input. Try a TLM 103 into a Mackie 1604. Then try it into a GML.

At the slightly esoteric level, about five years ago the pro audio market (manley and Groove Tubes to name two) responded to the issue by putting out top shelf preamps with variable impedance front ends. Those of you who remember turntable preamps witth impedance matching coils and capacitors know what I'm talking about.

BTW, some high quality mics sound no better than some of the Sino-crap condensers being shoved down our throats when they are plugged into cheap mic pres. Plug them into good mic pres and the difference is very noticeable.

It's not just about price. Plug an SM57 into a crap preamp and then plug it into something nice. It'll open up and surprise you.

I found SM58s and an old Peavy board tthat should have been retired long ago and that match was quite nice.

MATCHING MICS AND PREAMPS is what it's all about....oops! I let another of my secrets get away again.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Dwight Flynn · July 4th, 2005, 08:17 PM

Ok, maybe I am asking the right questions the wrong way. Is there a book, or manual, or a chart, or something helpful that will help me decide which mic-pre goes with which mic. Again, at least for now I am most frequently using the at897, byerdynamic m88 TG, rode nt-1a, marshall condenser, and I am thinking of getting a AKG 414 BXL. etc. I was hoping to get a good all in one pre-compressor-eq for the above, but if that is not possible, then I am willing to buy them separately (while trying to keep it under a grand if possible)

Ty Ford · July 4th, 2005, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Flynn

Ok, maybe I am asking the right questions the wrong way. Is there a book, or manual, or a chart, or something helpful that will help me decide which mic-pre goes with which mic. Again, at least for now I am most frequently using the at897, byerdynamic m88 TG, rode nt-1a, marshall condenser, and I am thinking of getting a AKG 414 BXL. etc. I was hoping to get a good all in one pre-compressor-eq for the above, but if that is not possible, then I am willing to buy them separately (while trying to keep it under a grand if possible)

Hi Dwight,

I know of no such book. I was asked to write one once, but there aren't enough days left in my life I wish to devote to the topic.

DON'T get the NT1-a. Go straight to the NT2-a.
I'm not a fan of Marshalls at the moment. All of the ones I've heard have been edgy and overly bright, regardless of preamp. I'd rather go for an AT or a Rode. Which mic and what do you want to use it for?

Regards,

Ty Ford

Jack Smith · July 4th, 2005, 09:12 PM

Excellent thread!

Dwight Flynn · July 4th, 2005, 09:16 PM

BTW Ty, if you write the book humanity will appreciate the effort long after you're gone:-).

Steve House · July 5th, 2005, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

I know of no such book. I was asked to write one once, but there aren't enough days left in my life I wish to devote to the topic.

...

Ty Ford

I'm curious - do the characteristics you're referring to remain consistent from production run to production run or do they change over time so that mic XX manufactured in 1998 might sound great with YY preamp but one manufactured in 2000 sound less satisfactory? Any manufacturers stand out one way or the other in that regard?

July 2nd, 2005, 01:50 AM	#1
Dwight Flynn Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 393	Which Mic Pre-Amp Thinking of doing the home studio thing (too expensive over time to run out and rent space). I was wondering which mic pre-amp to get. I am fairly new to this particular area (i.e. separate mic pre-amp), so I started doing some digging around. The prices range wildly, but I am not convinced that price and quality is a linear one in this case. For instance, I have seen the Avalon AD2022, which is almost $3,000. It good, but 3k good (maybe not). Any recommendations for a dual mic pre-amp or better in the $500 range that approximates (or dare I say exceeds) the Avalon AD2022. BTW, I use a range of mics for different projects, Rode NT-1A, Marshall, AT 897, Beyerdynamic, etc (not too expensive, but good quality). Help.

July 3rd, 2005, 06:10 AM	#4
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	I'm only aware of one. http://www.fmraudio.com/RNP8380.htm Regards, Ty Ford __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

July 4th, 2005, 01:24 PM	#6
Dwight Flynn Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 393	Hey Spot which mic pre-amp compressor eq combo device But I have heard that there are comparable dual pre-amps with good compressor and eq built in for the price range? I don't know, so I am just asking. Hey Spot which ones do you use?

July 4th, 2005, 07:12 PM	#9
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	I would take "matching mics and preamps" to mean combinations for what sound they offer, not for whether they "work" or not. For instance, my BK 4011's sound terrible through my Echo Mona's preamps, but sing sweet through my Avalon or my pet John Hardy. I'm sure that if Ty meant something else, he'll chime right back in and set the thread straight. :-) Dwight, for "serious" work that is destined for PBS or other high profile broadcast, where I'm making at least decent cash on the recording/producing, I use my Hardy M2 for nearly everything in those situations. I do also have a great Avalon 2022 that I'm also a fan of, but then that's a little more picky about what mics I use. An AT 4060 for instance, doesn't sound too good in the Avalon, as it takes on a lot of low mid mud. But through my Hardy, it's sweet, and rich. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

July 2nd, 2005, 10:50 PM	#3
Dwight Flynn Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 393	Thanks Ty, I'll give your advice a try. BTW, any particular Mark McQuilken's RNP preamp in mind?

July 4th, 2005, 12:15 PM	#5
Nate Ford Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: new york, ny Posts: 121	fmr's rnc compressor is the best thing you'll find in that price range too.

July 4th, 2005, 02:28 PM	#8
Steve House Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,742	I'm not an expert by any means, but wouldn't "matching mics and preamps" mean that you are matching the nominal output level of the microphone to the nominal input sensitivity of the preamp? If the preamp wanted a -66db signal to drive it to 0VU (example: Canon XL2's XLR mic inputs), a mic with a -66db output at reference sound pressure levels would be the best mate. Related to that, if you fed the mic to a field mixer with a line level output and you wanted to send it to the XL2's mic inputs, if the line level was the professional standard +4dbU you'd need to insert a -70db pad in the line to match the levels properly while if the mixer's output was at the -10db prosumer line level, a -55db pad would be the ticket. As I wrote this was wondering if there's any problems with cascading attentuation in series? Could the -70db drop needed to lower that +4dbU line level down to the -66 mic level on the Canon, for example, be done with a -50db in-line pad plus activating the camera's built-in -20db mic input attentuator for a total of -70db without otherwise affecting the sound quality? What might be the advantages and disadvantages of doing that versus simply lowering the gain of the mixer? Or am I totally confused....

July 4th, 2005, 08:17 PM	#11
Dwight Flynn Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 393	Ok, maybe I am asking the right questions the wrong way. Is there a book, or manual, or a chart, or something helpful that will help me decide which mic-pre goes with which mic. Again, at least for now I am most frequently using the at897, byerdynamic m88 TG, rode nt-1a, marshall condenser, and I am thinking of getting a AKG 414 BXL. etc. I was hoping to get a good all in one pre-compressor-eq for the above, but if that is not possible, then I am willing to buy them separately (while trying to keep it under a grand if possible)

July 4th, 2005, 09:12 PM	#13
Jack Smith Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: ontario Posts: 445	Excellent thread!

July 4th, 2005, 09:16 PM	#14
Dwight Flynn Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 393	BTW Ty, if you write the book humanity will appreciate the effort long after you're gone:-).