vx2k hiss, and beachtek dxa8 at DVinfo.net

Spike Spiegel · June 30th, 2005, 11:21 AM

Hey everyone, i'm not really relying on the sony vx2000 + beachtek combo for my sound needs, but i'm stumped in that I cannot absolutely remove the hissing worth #$)@#($. I was expecting the hissing to be there, but minimal, not annoying. But this is insane, I can't get rid of the hissing no matter what!

I've tried everything, from various audio levels on my mics to the beachtek box itself, but the hi ssing is still sooo significant. Its a good thing i'm not relying on this setup for shoots, however, its still buggin the hell out of me. ANyone have any suggestions as to what I should do? Anyone with a similar setup? Oh btw, I'm testing this with the Sennheiser EWG2 lav system.

Anthony Mooney · July 1st, 2005, 01:20 AM

Hi

I have no idea how this "hiss" sounds ( i have the XV-2100, no problems) and what soundS you record.
ALSO, since the "hiss" as you said is a camera porblem, changing your mic won't help much.

Then we come to edit. You need to work with EQ. This way you will make the Hiss less obvious. A gr.EQ with 20 bands will help a bit, with 31 bands will help better. But when you need to isolate a certain frequancy and work on it's level you do the best job with either parametric or paragraphic EQ.

So, look for software, graphic or parametric EQ. Most of the comersial editors(adobe, vegas) have these software preinstall as plug-ins.
If you do not know what I am talking about and all these sound strang for you, then you need to learn the basics of sound and EQ. Search the net, yoiu ll find lots of good things.

Good luck - Anthony

Glenn Chan · July 1st, 2005, 11:44 AM

A noise reduction plug-in would be better at removing hiss than a EQ plug-in. Adobe Audition comes with such a plug-in. There are many 3rd party plug-ins that do noise reduction (Sound Soap, Sony NR, Waves Xnoise, etc.).

2- Maybe try removing the microphone from the Beachtek, and just listen to the noise from the beachtek and the VX2000. It could be your Sennheiser system that's causing the noise?

Ty Ford · July 2nd, 2005, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike Spiegel

Hey everyone, i'm not really relying on the sony vx2000 + beachtek combo for my sound needs, but i'm stumped in that I cannot absolutely remove the hissing worth #$)@#($. I was expecting the hissing to be there, but minimal, not annoying. But this is insane, I can't get rid of the hissing no matter what!

I've tried everything, from various audio levels on my mics to the beachtek box itself, but the hi ssing is still sooo significant. Its a good thing i'm not relying on this setup for shoots, however, its still buggin the hell out of me. ANyone have any suggestions as to what I should do? Anyone with a similar setup? Oh btw, I'm testing this with the Sennheiser EWG2 lav system.

Spike,

Obviously, you're doing something wrong; either by the way in which you are connecting gear or by setting the record level, or in transfer.

Do you hear the hiss while you're recording?

If so, it's a connector or level issue.

If the G2 isn't turned up loud enough and you have to increase the sensitivity of your camcorder to get the right level, that makes a lot of noise.

The concept is called GAIN STAGING. The right output of one device to feed the input of the next device.

As a guess, you may need to increase the output of the G2 so you can back off the camera input.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Spike Spiegel · July 2nd, 2005, 02:20 PM

thanks for the responses. Yes, i do hear hiss while i'm recording, when monitoring thru headphones.. So you're saying, i shoudl turn up the sensitivity on the transmitter /receiver of the lav, and turn down the audio level on the camera? what about the beachtek?

Ty Ford · July 2nd, 2005, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike Spiegel

thanks for the responses. Yes, i do hear hiss while i'm recording, when monitoring thru headphones.. So you're saying, i shoudl turn up the sensitivity on the transmitter /receiver of the lav, and turn down the audio level on the camera? what about the beachtek?

The link from lav to xmitter may need adjusting. Make it not so loud that the loudest moment overloads the xmitter.

The link from the receiver to your camera (or beacktek) may also need adjusting. Make it not so loud that it clips the output of the receiver.

Check the input control on the beachtek (assuming it has one). Adjust it so the input for the receiver doesn't clip the beachtek.

Now adjust the input of the camera so the output of the beachtek doesn't overload the camera input.

All stages must be adjusted properly to get low noise and no clipping. That's called gain staging.

I go through that and more in my Bootcamp Field Guide. I also have a 12 minute MP4 in the video folder of my online archive that explains why to use which mic where. Enjoy.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Douglas Akers · July 3rd, 2005, 02:24 PM

I have a similar setup and have noticed that the headphone amp on the VX is terribly noisy.
I've been able to get perfectly acceptable audio using a senn. 500 series wireless with the right amount of gain tweaks between each device.
See if the hiss is as bad after you've captured your footage.
It may just be that amp.

Ty Ford · July 3rd, 2005, 06:03 PM

Doug makes a good point. Headphone audio can be crap, even on expensive cameras. You have to hear what the sound is like there though. Then take the tape and play it back in an edit suite (without a bunch of computers cpus on) to determine how much noise there is.

Ty Ford

David Ennis · July 4th, 2005, 05:30 AM

Spike, from your opening comment I gather that you are aware that hiss is a design problem with the VX2000, as described below:

"Upon its initial release, many Sony users were terrified to find that the PD150 (and VX2000) had an audible audio hiss problem. The problem manifested itself when the camera was taken out of Audio Gain Control (AGC) and placed in manual audio mode. For a time, Sony denied the hiss problem existed, but eventually relented under mounting consumer pressure. The PD150's owners were offered a fix, and all PD150's created after serial #1003300 (approx.) were shipped free of this problem. Unfortunately Sony considers the VX2000 a 'consumer' model camera and therefore refused to fix the audio hiss problem on this model." -- Don Ballmer, in an article written for dvinfo

You probably have already searched this site for info, but in case you never saw it, this apprears to be one of the best discussions. It suggests keeping the VX2000's gain on the low side:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...highlight=hiss

Everything that is measurable is variable, and unfortunately it may be that you are stuck with one of the worst pieces from the Sony production stream.

Spike Spiegel · July 4th, 2005, 12:10 PM

thanks for all your help guys i appreciate it very much. I'm not too concerned about the hissing but i've gathered a good deal of knowledge regarding it thru the forum. I'm not worried as our sound guy will be a separate recording unit, untethered to the cameramen so we have no need for a camera to mic connection.. I was just curious about this because i would like the equipment to work perfectly from the starting point. I might do the G W mod in the near future..

July 1st, 2005, 01:20 AM	#2
Anthony Mooney Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Long Branch NJ Posts: 69	Learn how to work with EQ Hi I have no idea how this "hiss" sounds ( i have the XV-2100, no problems) and what soundS you record. ALSO, since the "hiss" as you said is a camera porblem, changing your mic won't help much. Then we come to edit. You need to work with EQ. This way you will make the Hiss less obvious. A gr.EQ with 20 bands will help a bit, with 31 bands will help better. But when you need to isolate a certain frequancy and work on it's level you do the best job with either parametric or paragraphic EQ. So, look for software, graphic or parametric EQ. Most of the comersial editors(adobe, vegas) have these software preinstall as plug-ins. If you do not know what I am talking about and all these sound strang for you, then you need to learn the basics of sound and EQ. Search the net, yoiu ll find lots of good things. Good luck - Anthony

July 1st, 2005, 11:44 AM	#3
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	A noise reduction plug-in would be better at removing hiss than a EQ plug-in. Adobe Audition comes with such a plug-in. There are many 3rd party plug-ins that do noise reduction (Sound Soap, Sony NR, Waves Xnoise, etc.). 2- Maybe try removing the microphone from the Beachtek, and just listen to the noise from the beachtek and the VX2000. It could be your Sennheiser system that's causing the noise? Last edited by Glenn Chan; July 1st, 2005 at 12:06 PM.

July 3rd, 2005, 02:24 PM	#7
Douglas Akers Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Wyandotte MI Posts: 47	I have a similar setup and have noticed that the headphone amp on the VX is terribly noisy. I've been able to get perfectly acceptable audio using a senn. 500 series wireless with the right amount of gain tweaks between each device. See if the hiss is as bad after you've captured your footage. It may just be that amp. __________________ www.AboveGroundmovie.com www.LetsGoCOBO.com

July 3rd, 2005, 06:03 PM	#8
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	Doug makes a good point. Headphone audio can be crap, even on expensive cameras. You have to hear what the sound is like there though. Then take the tape and play it back in an edit suite (without a bunch of computers cpus on) to determine how much noise there is. Ty Ford __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

July 4th, 2005, 05:30 AM	#9
David Ennis Fred Retread Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hartford, CT Posts: 1,227	Spike, from your opening comment I gather that you are aware that hiss is a design problem with the VX2000, as described below: "Upon its initial release, many Sony users were terrified to find that the PD150 (and VX2000) had an audible audio hiss problem. The problem manifested itself when the camera was taken out of Audio Gain Control (AGC) and placed in manual audio mode. For a time, Sony denied the hiss problem existed, but eventually relented under mounting consumer pressure. The PD150's owners were offered a fix, and all PD150's created after serial #1003300 (approx.) were shipped free of this problem. Unfortunately Sony considers the VX2000 a 'consumer' model camera and therefore refused to fix the audio hiss problem on this model." -- Don Ballmer, in an article written for dvinfo You probably have already searched this site for info, but in case you never saw it, this apprears to be one of the best discussions. It suggests keeping the VX2000's gain on the low side: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...highlight=hiss Everything that is measurable is variable, and unfortunately it may be that you are stuck with one of the worst pieces from the Sony production stream. __________________ "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge "My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me

June 30th, 2005, 11:21 AM	#1
Spike Spiegel Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 429	vx2k hiss, and beachtek dxa8 Hey everyone, i'm not really relying on the sony vx2000 + beachtek combo for my sound needs, but i'm stumped in that I cannot absolutely remove the hissing worth #$)@#($. I was expecting the hissing to be there, but minimal, not annoying. But this is insane, I can't get rid of the hissing no matter what! I've tried everything, from various audio levels on my mics to the beachtek box itself, but the hi ssing is still sooo significant. Its a good thing i'm not relying on this setup for shoots, however, its still buggin the hell out of me. ANyone have any suggestions as to what I should do? Anyone with a similar setup? Oh btw, I'm testing this with the Sennheiser EWG2 lav system.

July 2nd, 2005, 02:20 PM	#5
Spike Spiegel Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 429	thanks for the responses. Yes, i do hear hiss while i'm recording, when monitoring thru headphones.. So you're saying, i shoudl turn up the sensitivity on the transmitter /receiver of the lav, and turn down the audio level on the camera? what about the beachtek?

July 4th, 2005, 12:10 PM	#10
Spike Spiegel Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 429	thanks for all your help guys i appreciate it very much. I'm not too concerned about the hissing but i've gathered a good deal of knowledge regarding it thru the forum. I'm not worried as our sound guy will be a separate recording unit, untethered to the cameramen so we have no need for a camera to mic connection.. I was just curious about this because i would like the equipment to work perfectly from the starting point. I might do the G W mod in the near future..