AT897, AT4053a, AT4073a

Marco Leavitt · May 30th, 2005, 09:15 PM

That's interesting. I've always used foam windscreens indoors, and had no idea I was giving up anything. It does protect the mic from bumps, smoke and dust though doesn't it?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · May 30th, 2005, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Leavitt

That's interesting. I've always used foam windscreens indoors, and had no idea I was giving up anything. It does protect the mic from bumps, smoke and dust though doesn't it?

Record with the windscreen on, and record the same source with it off.
You'll hear the diff, and see in in your DAW/NLE display.

Ty Ford · May 31st, 2005, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Wilson

I know the Schoeps is supposed to be better and some believe it is considerably better than all other mics, but I've recorded dialog in a tiled kitchen with the MK41 and a 4053a side by side and I cannot tell the difference, nor could others that listened to the results. While there may be some slight difference in some situations, I think you can't go wrong with the AT. In fact, I just bought a second one. They're only $377 at G&G Video. Incredible bargain.

OTOH, I did compare the two and could tell the difference immediately. It may help that I review mics for a living.

You get what you pay for. The Schoeps cmc641 is worth it. You don't see 4053s on movie sets, you see cmc641. The reason, it sounds better. :)

Regards,

Ty Ford

K. Forman · May 31st, 2005, 06:51 AM

And all this time, I've only had my Azden wireless lavs, and an ATR55 w/foam to work with. Never having to work with a dead cat, the foam has seemingly worked alright, inside or outside. Or is this just my untrained ear?

Jay Massengill · May 31st, 2005, 07:45 AM

If you are actively booming almost any mic indoors, you'll still need at least a foam screen in place to defeat the air noises of moving the mic through the air.

K. Forman · May 31st, 2005, 07:58 AM

I'm not really trying to be difficult, just not overly learned when it comes to audio. I just mount my ATR55 on the cam, no boom, as it is usually just me. I also don't have the cash to spend on all the accessories, so I only get what I really need, and what I can afford.

As I previously said, just using the foam outside hasn't seemed to produce any undesired effects. At least, none that my untrained ears can detect. What should I look or listen for? Are there any affordable alternatives to the Zepplin or Rycote?

Marco Leavitt · May 31st, 2005, 08:07 AM

Keith,
I'm amazed that you're not getting wind rumble with only a foam windscreen outdoors. I've had no luck at all without a Rycote.

K. Forman · May 31st, 2005, 08:14 AM

I have heard wind rumble, but not on my footage. I guess I haven't been in a strong enough wind yet?

Henry Cho · May 31st, 2005, 08:26 AM

keith,

i got my hands on a lightwave equalizer immediately after getting burned with a foam windscreen. granted, the weather was horrible. after shelling out $120, certainly not chump change, i feel it was a great investment.

when i was shopping for a softie last month, i stumbled on this guy in denmark, who runs his shop out of ebay. i was impressed with his ebay feedback, and when i emailed him, he was extremely polite and helpful. his stuff seems cool, and much cheaper.

here's the link to his page:
http://www.reinhardt-film.com/new/ebay.html

i've never used his products -- i'm just throwing this out there as something to potentially look into as an inexpensive alternative.

K. Forman · May 31st, 2005, 08:36 AM

Hey Henry- thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

I haven't used anything other than the foamy, and so far, haven't heard any noises other than what I wanted... aside from people between me and the target. The reason I got the shotgun, was because I was consistantly getting more noise from behind the cam, and not enough of the desired subject. I found this AT for like $100 on ebay, and actually had the cash in pocket. Like I said, I have been really happy with it, but ignorance is bliss eh?

Matthew Wilson · May 31st, 2005, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

OTOH, I did compare the two and could tell the difference immediately. It may help that I review mics for a living.
You get what you pay for.

Hey Ty,
I am sure there are differences besides the cost. Can you be a little more specific in what it is that you noticed when you compared them? I have had limited situations to put them side by side but I honestly don't hear the difference. For me, small differences in mic placement make a much greater difference than I can hear between these two mics.

Shawn Murphy · May 31st, 2005, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

OTOH, I did compare the two and could tell the difference immediately. It may help that I review mics for a living.

You get what you pay for. The Schoeps cmc641 is worth it. You don't see 4053s on movie sets, you see cmc641. The reason, it sounds better. :)

Regards,

Ty Ford

Ty and others,

I sincerely don't want this to turn into one of those classic arguments about microns of difference that only the most sophisticated machines and testers can differentiate, however, I would sincerely like to know if there are any posted shootout results so we could perhaps "hear" the differences for ourselves.

Two points that I think are very important to keep in mind:

1. Just because a piece of equipment is used by the pros doesn't mean it is the the "best", though it is powerful marketing and yes, often times the "best" gets there by being.... well, the best at a given point and time or that which was best marketed. I can assure you that I've seen this myth perpetuated many times in the music business ("product 'z' is what e-v-e-r-y-o-n-e uses"), and although there are definitely occasions and instances where a piece of equipment is noticeably "better", often times something becomes (or stays) a standard for reasons beyond what is discernable to the masses: spec envy, "everybody uses 'x'", change is slow, etc.

*Keeping in mind that I too am susceptible to having to go with, and am influenced by, "what is used in the studios" opinions and reviews, as I've not had the luxury myself to test these kinds of mics used in filmmaking/non-music applications

2. "...the majority of lay people (the listening/viewing audience) can't tell the difference when really expensive equipment is used", i.e. the difference between the "best" and something close, is often times not worth the additional cost if there is no measurable difference (obviously I'm not comparing a radio shack plastic mic with a top of the line wide diaphragm, and when I say "measurable", I mean audible to the largest segment of the listening/viewing audience)

*Again, if there really is a discernable difference then I sincerely would like an opportunity to hear it as I do want to know the limitations or qualities of various equipment when they are substantial.

Marco Leavitt · May 31st, 2005, 12:00 PM

For what it's worth, and I certainly don't have the experience or ear that Ty has, I've compared an AKG Blueline CK93 and MK41 side by side, and for the life of me couldn't tell the difference most of the time. There were a few times though when I noticed I was getting a little more echo from the CK93 depending on where the mic was placed in relation to the wall. Specifically, recording from about a foot and half away, with the mic pointed downward maybe 70 degrees and a closed door about another two feet behind the mic. I think it goes without saying that the Schoeps has lower self noise and with the talent slightly off axis will be more forgiving. Is it worth the extra $1,000? The overwhelming opinion of professional sound people seems to be that it is. But if you don't have the bucks, you can definitely get some pretty good audio from a $400 mic.

Shawn Murphy · May 31st, 2005, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Leavitt

...I've compared an AKG Blueline CK93 and MK41 side by side...

...There were a few times though when I noticed I was getting a little more echo from the CK93 depending on where the mic was placed in relation to the wall. Specifically, recording from about a foot and half away, with the mic pointed downward maybe 70 degrees and a closed door about another two feet behind the mic...

Marco,

That's the kind of information I'm really interested in, and although I realize you're not referring to an actual shootout (controlled test scenario), if there are factors like this that really do exist between these mics (or others for that matter), then those are useful and tangible differences that everyone should know about when making a purchasing decision. Thx!

Matthew Wilson · May 31st, 2005, 12:40 PM

My feelings exactly Shawn. I've read some comparison "shootouts" between various mics but I haven't found one specificly addressing the ones at issue here. Ty Ford's got a lot of good reviews posted for different mics, but he doesn't have the 4053a. I was on the fence for quite a while and then I finally just went and rented an MK41 and did my own listening tests and that's how I came to my conclusions. I think it was a great $25 investment. Though I didn't have time to compare them in more than a few situatiuons, what I did hear convinced me that the AT was a very good choice. Since then, I have used it on several shoots and have been very well pleased with the results. I think, in the end, that's what matters most: does it sound good?

Matt

May 31st, 2005, 06:51 AM	#19
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	And all this time, I've only had my Azden wireless lavs, and an ATR55 w/foam to work with. Never having to work with a dead cat, the foam has seemingly worked alright, inside or outside. Or is this just my untrained ear? __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

May 31st, 2005, 07:58 AM	#21
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	I'm not really trying to be difficult, just not overly learned when it comes to audio. I just mount my ATR55 on the cam, no boom, as it is usually just me. I also don't have the cash to spend on all the accessories, so I only get what I really need, and what I can afford. As I previously said, just using the foam outside hasn't seemed to produce any undesired effects. At least, none that my untrained ears can detect. What should I look or listen for? Are there any affordable alternatives to the Zepplin or Rycote? __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

May 31st, 2005, 08:14 AM	#23
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	I have heard wind rumble, but not on my footage. I guess I haven't been in a strong enough wind yet? __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

May 31st, 2005, 08:36 AM	#25
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Hey Henry- thanks for the link, I'll check it out. I haven't used anything other than the foamy, and so far, haven't heard any noises other than what I wanted... aside from people between me and the target. The reason I got the shotgun, was because I was consistantly getting more noise from behind the cam, and not enough of the desired subject. I found this AT for like $100 on ebay, and actually had the cash in pocket. Like I said, I have been really happy with it, but ignorance is bliss eh? __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

May 31st, 2005, 12:40 PM	#30
Matthew Wilson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 259	My feelings exactly Shawn. I've read some comparison "shootouts" between various mics but I haven't found one specificly addressing the ones at issue here. Ty Ford's got a lot of good reviews posted for different mics, but he doesn't have the 4053a. I was on the fence for quite a while and then I finally just went and rented an MK41 and did my own listening tests and that's how I came to my conclusions. I think it was a great $25 investment. Though I didn't have time to compare them in more than a few situatiuons, what I did hear convinced me that the AT was a very good choice. Since then, I have used it on several shoots and have been very well pleased with the results. I think, in the end, that's what matters most: does it sound good? Matt __________________ MW

May 30th, 2005, 09:15 PM	#16
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	That's interesting. I've always used foam windscreens indoors, and had no idea I was giving up anything. It does protect the mic from bumps, smoke and dust though doesn't it?

May 31st, 2005, 07:45 AM	#20
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	If you are actively booming almost any mic indoors, you'll still need at least a foam screen in place to defeat the air noises of moving the mic through the air.

May 31st, 2005, 08:07 AM	#22
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Keith, I'm amazed that you're not getting wind rumble with only a foam windscreen outdoors. I've had no luck at all without a Rycote.

May 31st, 2005, 08:26 AM	#24
Henry Cho Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 516	keith, i got my hands on a lightwave equalizer immediately after getting burned with a foam windscreen. granted, the weather was horrible. after shelling out $120, certainly not chump change, i feel it was a great investment. when i was shopping for a softie last month, i stumbled on this guy in denmark, who runs his shop out of ebay. i was impressed with his ebay feedback, and when i emailed him, he was extremely polite and helpful. his stuff seems cool, and much cheaper. here's the link to his page: http://www.reinhardt-film.com/new/ebay.html i've never used his products -- i'm just throwing this out there as something to potentially look into as an inexpensive alternative.

May 31st, 2005, 12:00 PM	#28
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	For what it's worth, and I certainly don't have the experience or ear that Ty has, I've compared an AKG Blueline CK93 and MK41 side by side, and for the life of me couldn't tell the difference most of the time. There were a few times though when I noticed I was getting a little more echo from the CK93 depending on where the mic was placed in relation to the wall. Specifically, recording from about a foot and half away, with the mic pointed downward maybe 70 degrees and a closed door about another two feet behind the mic. I think it goes without saying that the Schoeps has lower self noise and with the talent slightly off axis will be more forgiving. Is it worth the extra $1,000? The overwhelming opinion of professional sound people seems to be that it is. But if you don't have the bucks, you can definitely get some pretty good audio from a $400 mic.