Sony's new flash players at DVinfo.net

Dave Largent · March 13th, 2005, 05:31 AM

Wonder if they have mic/line-in, like the irivers.

http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/5685

Douglas Spotted Eagle · March 13th, 2005, 08:53 AM

I don't believe this series offers any external input at all. The spec sheets say nothing about it, and the various pix I've seen don't show it. Probably too much to ask for in the sub $200.00 range.

Dave Largent · March 13th, 2005, 09:04 AM

<<<-- Probably too much to ask for in the sub $200.00 range. -->>>

Maybe for "Sony", but I just picked up an iRiver
flash player with mic-in and line-in for sub $100
(with rebate) new.

Dave Largent · March 13th, 2005, 10:35 AM

Here's the one I got:

http://www.iriveramerica.com/prod/ul...0/ifp_790.aspx

Kevin Kwak · March 13th, 2005, 12:45 PM

Did you get a chance to play with your new toy?
If yes, could you tell us how far the iRiver can pick up voice in terms of feet (5, 10, 20 feet and etc.)?
Is the voice recording very clean? Thanks in advance Dave.

<<<-- Originally posted by Dave Largent : Here's the one I got:

http://www.iriveramerica.com/prod/ul...0/ifp_790.aspx -->>>

Dave Largent · March 13th, 2005, 06:36 PM

Not yet, Kevin.
From what I hear, it's not easy to set up. Have to
dig into a complex menu system. Someone
on here gave a step by step tutorial on how to set
it up.

Here's Jack Smith on set up (it's toward the
bottom of the page):

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ighlight=icons

I hear once you've set it up a couple times it's
not too bad.

Will you be using an external mic, or just the one
that is built in?

Bob Costa · March 13th, 2005, 07:38 PM

Built in mic is not useful for much beyond keeping personal notes. But add a compatible lav or other mic, and it is a very cool device. Here is a link to a pic of my AT897 / iRiver setup. Make 100% sure you LOCK it once you have it set, as buttons have a big tendency to get hit easily and stop recording at wrong time. I was playing with this setup last night and forgot to lock it. I ended up with about an hour 10 of recording time, when I should have had 3 hours. Several of my "test" locations never even got a single sound at them, as I must have hit off button when I moved mic to new location. So I have more testing to do to get settings and location right for this mic. FWIW. I keep some music on the 1GB midel, and still have about 6.5 hours of recording time at max settings (44khx/384kbps)

My Setup

Be sure to test mic combos WAY ahead of time. Some lavs work great, others completely useless or require different settings.

Dave Largent · March 13th, 2005, 08:29 PM

John, nifty set up.
What do you use the 897/iRiver for? And what
volume level do you set on the iRiver?
How are the preamps? Get much hiss, or are they
pretty quiet?

Bob Costa · March 14th, 2005, 12:52 AM

I have used iRiver with lavs and it works well. I am using 897 to have a "Band or bar option". Maybe even do some fun "Live from ...." recordings for my musician friends. They never get to hear what they sound like out in the audience. Once I get smarter, I may even try a stereo mic, but thought mono would be simpler at the start.

Still struggling with the settings. For a lav, mic setting at 55 seems to work well. Using AT897 inside a bar about 6 feet from a loud electric band, 30 seems to be correct. My big challenge is that because iRiver does not put out huge signal into headphones, you can't use headphones very well to monitor sound in a R&R bar environment. Ambient noise overwhelms anything coming from phones. It is hard to decide if there is clipping until you see the signal in Soundforge or can listen in quiet room. I started at 55 (which was seriously clipped and distorted), following visit 2 weeks later I used 40 and 35 (35 was okay with minor clipping, but will go to 30 next time.

I am still learning about AT897 mic, and this is a hard way to do it with no monitor capability. Placement is critical to good sound in the venue I have tried so far. Acoustics at inside bar suck, and trying to find places to avoid crowd noise forces me close to the band. They have an outside bar, but that is where I only got two samples last night. One was 10 feet in front of band, but inside the vocal speaker cone, so was too heavy on instrumentals. I had another location on the roof (7.5' up) which was above crowd, but I got too much drums and vocals were extremely flat and tinny. I am guessing because of completely open space the vocals just went off into space. No reverb at all. Compressing the signal in post helped bring up vocals some, but it was not a true reproduction of what the band sounded like. I am still playing with it. I am frustrated that two of my test locations got lost due to forgetting to lock it.

As you can see, these are all microphone issues, the iRiver itself is the least of my problems (as long as I can remember to lock the settings). I would rate it as quiet, but can't say for sure until I get settings and mic placement where I want them. But no noticable hiss during non-musical periods (to my ears).

The cool thing is that mic ends up being a little self contained unit, can stick it pretty much anywhere. I just don't think the 897 is the right mic to be using for music. I will try it again with a more "acoustic" type of band, and a couple of other venues in the next 30 days. Maybe someone can weigh in and suggest an affordable alternative mic for music. But for a hidden shotgun (stick it right on the stage?) it could be a great combination.

Bob Costa · March 14th, 2005, 01:15 AM

Oh yeah, one caution. Always record in stereo mode, even with mono microphone.

Dave Largent · March 14th, 2005, 09:30 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by John Galt : Oh yeah, one caution. Always record in stereo mode, even with mono microphone. -->>>

I've heard something about that. What happens if
you put it in mono mode?

Bob Costa · March 14th, 2005, 10:19 AM

Nothing. :)

Wiring issue, you can fix it if you want to make special connectors. Everybody in the world puts mono on right channel wiring, except iRiver, which looks for mono signal on left side.

Bill Ball · March 14th, 2005, 11:26 AM

I just used my iriver IFP-799 in production for the first time and hear is a short report.

I used to record some voice overs for a project. I have not had good luck using the mic preamp built in to my Iriver with the mics I have (too much self-noise) so I used the following set up.

A Rode NT-3 mic into a Rolls PM50sOB, Headphone out of the Rolls into the iriver, monitored the iriver from the iriver headphone out. The Rolls gave me a pre-amp and a nice dial for setting the input levels into the i-river. Unfortunately there is no good way to monitor the recording levels on the Rolls (other than by ear). I had the Rolls set at 44kz/192kps mono.

(iriver + Rolls = $260 investment)

I was very happy with the results. Quality was limited by some ambient noise and the charateristics of the mic, certainly not the iriver. I tired different settings on the input by varying the headphone out on the Rolls and found the iriver pretty forgiving. Even brief passages of heavily clipped audio sound much better than they look in Audition. Easy transfer to the PC. 13 hours of recording time--wow.

Find the sweet spot in terms of the input on this thing and clip it to a tiny mixer (pre-amp with meters and a limiter) and you would be all set.

Dave Largent · March 14th, 2005, 01:10 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Bill Ball : I just used my iriver IFP-799 in production for the first time and hear is a short report.

Find the sweet spot in terms of the input on this thing and clip it to a tiny mixer (pre-amp with meters and a limiter) and you would be all set. -->>>

Maybe something like this one:

http://www.professionalsound.com/cat...Promix%201.htm

I'd recommend the Sound Devices preamp, but
it doesn't have meters. The one thing I find
odd about the PSC unit is that there are no
specs (that I've seen) from the manufacturer
stating how much gain it offers. Wonder if that
means anything bad? It's priced the same as the
Sound Devices unit.

Bob Costa · March 14th, 2005, 03:58 PM

FWIW, some mics work better with iRiver set to line-in instead of mic-in as source. I would work hard to not need a pre-amp. I like portable and small !!!

March 13th, 2005, 05:31 AM	#1
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	Sony's new flash players Wonder if they have mic/line-in, like the irivers. http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/5685

March 13th, 2005, 08:53 AM	#2
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	I don't believe this series offers any external input at all. The spec sheets say nothing about it, and the various pix I've seen don't show it. Probably too much to ask for in the sub $200.00 range. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

March 14th, 2005, 11:26 AM	#13
Bill Ball Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: NEW JERSEY Posts: 216	Iriver report I just used my iriver IFP-799 in production for the first time and hear is a short report. I used to record some voice overs for a project. I have not had good luck using the mic preamp built in to my Iriver with the mics I have (too much self-noise) so I used the following set up. A Rode NT-3 mic into a Rolls PM50sOB, Headphone out of the Rolls into the iriver, monitored the iriver from the iriver headphone out. The Rolls gave me a pre-amp and a nice dial for setting the input levels into the i-river. Unfortunately there is no good way to monitor the recording levels on the Rolls (other than by ear). I had the Rolls set at 44kz/192kps mono. (iriver + Rolls = $260 investment) I was very happy with the results. Quality was limited by some ambient noise and the charateristics of the mic, certainly not the iriver. I tired different settings on the input by varying the headphone out on the Rolls and found the iriver pretty forgiving. Even brief passages of heavily clipped audio sound much better than they look in Audition. Easy transfer to the PC. 13 hours of recording time--wow. Find the sweet spot in terms of the input on this thing and clip it to a tiny mixer (pre-amp with meters and a limiter) and you would be all set.

March 14th, 2005, 01:10 PM	#14
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	Re: Iriver report <<<-- Originally posted by Bill Ball : I just used my iriver IFP-799 in production for the first time and hear is a short report. Find the sweet spot in terms of the input on this thing and clip it to a tiny mixer (pre-amp with meters and a limiter) and you would be all set. -->>> Maybe something like this one: http://www.professionalsound.com/cat...Promix%201.htm I'd recommend the Sound Devices preamp, but it doesn't have meters. The one thing I find odd about the PSC unit is that there are no specs (that I've seen) from the manufacturer stating how much gain it offers. Wonder if that means anything bad? It's priced the same as the Sound Devices unit.

March 13th, 2005, 09:04 AM	#3
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	<<<-- Probably too much to ask for in the sub $200.00 range. -->>> Maybe for "Sony", but I just picked up an iRiver flash player with mic-in and line-in for sub $100 (with rebate) new.

March 13th, 2005, 10:35 AM	#4
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	Here's the one I got: http://www.iriveramerica.com/prod/ul...0/ifp_790.aspx

March 13th, 2005, 12:45 PM	#5
Kevin Kwak Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 91	Did you get a chance to play with your new toy? If yes, could you tell us how far the iRiver can pick up voice in terms of feet (5, 10, 20 feet and etc.)? Is the voice recording very clean? Thanks in advance Dave. <<<-- Originally posted by Dave Largent : Here's the one I got: http://www.iriveramerica.com/prod/ul...0/ifp_790.aspx -->>>

March 13th, 2005, 06:36 PM	#6
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	Not yet, Kevin. From what I hear, it's not easy to set up. Have to dig into a complex menu system. Someone on here gave a step by step tutorial on how to set it up. Here's Jack Smith on set up (it's toward the bottom of the page): http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ighlight=icons I hear once you've set it up a couple times it's not too bad. Will you be using an external mic, or just the one that is built in?

March 13th, 2005, 07:38 PM	#7
Bob Costa Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Venice, FL Posts: 850	Built in mic is not useful for much beyond keeping personal notes. But add a compatible lav or other mic, and it is a very cool device. Here is a link to a pic of my AT897 / iRiver setup. Make 100% sure you LOCK it once you have it set, as buttons have a big tendency to get hit easily and stop recording at wrong time. I was playing with this setup last night and forgot to lock it. I ended up with about an hour 10 of recording time, when I should have had 3 hours. Several of my "test" locations never even got a single sound at them, as I must have hit off button when I moved mic to new location. So I have more testing to do to get settings and location right for this mic. FWIW. I keep some music on the 1GB midel, and still have about 6.5 hours of recording time at max settings (44khx/384kbps) My Setup Be sure to test mic combos WAY ahead of time. Some lavs work great, others completely useless or require different settings.

March 13th, 2005, 08:29 PM	#8
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	John, nifty set up. What do you use the 897/iRiver for? And what volume level do you set on the iRiver? How are the preamps? Get much hiss, or are they pretty quiet?

March 14th, 2005, 12:52 AM	#9
Bob Costa Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Venice, FL Posts: 850	I have used iRiver with lavs and it works well. I am using 897 to have a "Band or bar option". Maybe even do some fun "Live from ...." recordings for my musician friends. They never get to hear what they sound like out in the audience. Once I get smarter, I may even try a stereo mic, but thought mono would be simpler at the start. Still struggling with the settings. For a lav, mic setting at 55 seems to work well. Using AT897 inside a bar about 6 feet from a loud electric band, 30 seems to be correct. My big challenge is that because iRiver does not put out huge signal into headphones, you can't use headphones very well to monitor sound in a R&R bar environment. Ambient noise overwhelms anything coming from phones. It is hard to decide if there is clipping until you see the signal in Soundforge or can listen in quiet room. I started at 55 (which was seriously clipped and distorted), following visit 2 weeks later I used 40 and 35 (35 was okay with minor clipping, but will go to 30 next time. I am still learning about AT897 mic, and this is a hard way to do it with no monitor capability. Placement is critical to good sound in the venue I have tried so far. Acoustics at inside bar suck, and trying to find places to avoid crowd noise forces me close to the band. They have an outside bar, but that is where I only got two samples last night. One was 10 feet in front of band, but inside the vocal speaker cone, so was too heavy on instrumentals. I had another location on the roof (7.5' up) which was above crowd, but I got too much drums and vocals were extremely flat and tinny. I am guessing because of completely open space the vocals just went off into space. No reverb at all. Compressing the signal in post helped bring up vocals some, but it was not a true reproduction of what the band sounded like. I am still playing with it. I am frustrated that two of my test locations got lost due to forgetting to lock it. As you can see, these are all microphone issues, the iRiver itself is the least of my problems (as long as I can remember to lock the settings). I would rate it as quiet, but can't say for sure until I get settings and mic placement where I want them. But no noticable hiss during non-musical periods (to my ears). The cool thing is that mic ends up being a little self contained unit, can stick it pretty much anywhere. I just don't think the 897 is the right mic to be using for music. I will try it again with a more "acoustic" type of band, and a couple of other venues in the next 30 days. Maybe someone can weigh in and suggest an affordable alternative mic for music. But for a hidden shotgun (stick it right on the stage?) it could be a great combination.

March 14th, 2005, 01:15 AM	#10
Bob Costa Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Venice, FL Posts: 850	Oh yeah, one caution. Always record in stereo mode, even with mono microphone.

March 14th, 2005, 09:30 AM	#11
Dave Largent Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,483	<<<-- Originally posted by John Galt : Oh yeah, one caution. Always record in stereo mode, even with mono microphone. -->>> I've heard something about that. What happens if you put it in mono mode?

March 14th, 2005, 10:19 AM	#12
Bob Costa Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Venice, FL Posts: 850	Nothing. :) Wiring issue, you can fix it if you want to make special connectors. Everybody in the world puts mono on right channel wiring, except iRiver, which looks for mono signal on left side.

March 14th, 2005, 03:58 PM	#15
Bob Costa Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Venice, FL Posts: 850	FWIW, some mics work better with iRiver set to line-in instead of mic-in as source. I would work hard to not need a pre-amp. I like portable and small !!!