Film scoring software needed

Dwight Flynn · February 25th, 2005, 08:38 AM

Harris, as stated above I am currently doing several projects in different stages. The most pressing now is a historical Doc I am working on and now need to consider the music for. I will probably be using canned music with voiceover (meaning lowering the music and background sound to allow for clear foreground voices of narrators). I will mix it myself, but I admit this is a new area for me so there will be a learning curve. In the near future I will be using music I have recorded live and maybe mixing it with some canned music. I am taking the position of Dir of sound design more so than Foley artist, but in indie work U kinda have to be a jack of all trades (to some extent). I will be taking the advice given above by DSE and others, and I will be looking around for canned music I can use in post. Ultimately, I will be looking for a software with a reasonable learning curve (I have used editors before, such as audition, but I am new to mixers like acid), and a lot of flexibility.

Harris Ueng · February 25th, 2005, 11:25 AM

If all you're looking to do is mix canned music in post, your NLE will more than likely be sufficient for mixing canned music and voice-overs. (BTW, by "mixing", I meant mixing several different parts of a musical piece together, e.g. drums, guitar, bass, etc, into a final piece.)

You haven't mentioned anything about your recording needs, MIDI sequencing needs, or plug-in needs so I'm guessing that none of these are requirements for you at this point.

Adobe Audition (formerly Cool Edit Pro) is actually more than an editor, you can multi-track and mix in it. You can even open video files for viewing and syncing if required. I believe it even has loop handling capability. So, if you have access to Audition you're already set to go. Plus, you'll have a great audio editor to boot.

You haven't mentioned budget either, but I'm guessing that since you're doing indie work, you have a tight budget requirement? Do you plan on doing this as your trade or as a side job? Is this going to be a business investment for the future or just to get you by for now? Does the software you select need to be cross-compatible to your peers and others in industry (and have street cred) or are you looking for software that can just "get the job done"?

My point is, you may have the tools in your hands already for the work you're describing, but if you don't, to give you a well thought-out answer will take you answering in more detail. Despite the fact that capabilities are converging in the sequencer realm, each piece of software out there has its strengths and weaknesses. These strengths and weaknesses map into how easy (or hard) it becomes to get certain things done.

I understand that you're new to this area altogether and maybe just testing the waters. If that's the case, go for one of the light versions of the full-packages like Cakewalk Home Studio or Steinberg Cubase SE. These will give you basic capability for cheap until you learn enough to know what you need. Or, spend a bit more and get ACID Pro, Audition, or Cubase SL.

Gotta love having choices.

EDIT:
Take another look at that list Patrick posted. Most of those are NOT just general sound editors. They're very capable budget-level sequencers and many on the list allow you to drop a video track on the timeline to sync your sound to. Pro Tools and Steinberg Nuendo are considered to be more "built" for film scoring, while being multi-hat wearing also... and they'll blow your budget out of the water just by looking at them. ;-)

Steven Davis · August 18th, 2010, 06:46 PM

I downloaded MAGIX, the glitch however is that I can't find their loops, they say they have a sound archive with 3500 sounds, but they don't show the preview. I've emailed them.

I also tried to download Cubase, but I need a USB number.

Good thread, I just need a large library of loops and such, I'm pretty sure I can do the mixes. Anyone know the link to the m-audio disks that were referenced on this thread?

David W. Jones · August 19th, 2010, 04:08 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but judging from your posts what you are looking for are pre made loop libraries rather than film scoring software where you would need to compose the actual score yourself.

Steven Davis · August 19th, 2010, 06:51 PM

But I was thinking there are loops out there that can be mixed to create a song, I might be crazy. Something similar to how rap is mixed, basically samples.

So I'm looking for loops that I could mix to create 'romantic' music and the like. I have a musical background, unfortunately it's playing the drums and mixing audio. Thanks for the question.

Rick Reineke · August 20th, 2010, 01:28 PM

Sonic Foundry's Acid was basically the first music looping software program. Lots of loops available if not creating y'own. Comes with a nice assortment of plug-ins, supports Direct-X and VST, MIDI, MIDI-TC and a video preview window or an option to send picture to an external monitor.
It's also a decent multi-track DAW, but it wouldn't be my first choice for tracking sessions with multiple players.

Sony Creative Software - ACID Pro Digital Audio Workstation and ACID Music Studio Loop-Based Music Creation Software

Steven Davis · August 20th, 2010, 02:19 PM

Well I went to my local stores, ironically there are two major companys, Sam Ash Music and Guitar Center right side by side, and looked at CuBase. Then the guy at Sam Ash opened Sequal Start:|http://www.steinberg.net/ and I think that's more of what I am looking for. I have a musical background, drums, but all the males in my family play piano. So I'm expecting to be able to learn basic piano then I think I can continue to the point of making my own music. It might take me a couple of years, but you have to start somewhere.

Bruce Foreman · August 21st, 2010, 12:19 AM

"The list" posted earlier includes SmartSound's SonicFire 3.

Current version is SonicFire Pro 5.5.0.0

The "Express Tracks" edition is free with any music purchase, individual tracks may be purchased at prices that range from as low as $14.95 for their older single layer music, to $29.95 for some of their multilayer music, to $49.95 per track for their latest with vocals.

With Express Tracks you indicate the timed length you need in a data field and if you've purchased the music you select (and it's on your hard drive) it is automatically composed to that length. Export it as a WAV file, drag 'n drop to the music track on your NLE timeline.

The "Scoring Edition" is $99 and has a timeline of it's own. You can load in a video (low res render of the segment you need to score works best) and it plays in a small window while the music on the timeline plays so you can see before exporting how it fits. The Scoring Edition works like SmartSound Quicktracks in many NLE's used to work, you can drag left and right ends of the music segment to change the length of the music and it "recomposes"

Express Tracks comes with the Scoring Edition, I have the Scoring Edition and find it is an extremely precise way to score using SmartSound music. I have NO musical background, and NO musical talent.

But SonicFire Pro works well for me.

Chris Harding · August 21st, 2010, 12:45 AM

Hi Bruce

Nice to see you around still!! Yep, for me SS is still the easiest without having to know anything about music. I used to play in a band so I have fiddled with Acid but for me it's a long and painful process and just browsing thru ready-made professional tracks is way easier!! With mood mapping on the new versions film scoring should be relatively painless now and the end result will be good.

I still use single layer libraries but for weddings and events they are more than adequate!!

Chris

February 25th, 2005, 11:25 AM	#17
Harris Ueng Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Palo Alto, CA Posts: 55	If all you're looking to do is mix canned music in post, your NLE will more than likely be sufficient for mixing canned music and voice-overs. (BTW, by "mixing", I meant mixing several different parts of a musical piece together, e.g. drums, guitar, bass, etc, into a final piece.) You haven't mentioned anything about your recording needs, MIDI sequencing needs, or plug-in needs so I'm guessing that none of these are requirements for you at this point. Adobe Audition (formerly Cool Edit Pro) is actually more than an editor, you can multi-track and mix in it. You can even open video files for viewing and syncing if required. I believe it even has loop handling capability. So, if you have access to Audition you're already set to go. Plus, you'll have a great audio editor to boot. You haven't mentioned budget either, but I'm guessing that since you're doing indie work, you have a tight budget requirement? Do you plan on doing this as your trade or as a side job? Is this going to be a business investment for the future or just to get you by for now? Does the software you select need to be cross-compatible to your peers and others in industry (and have street cred) or are you looking for software that can just "get the job done"? My point is, you may have the tools in your hands already for the work you're describing, but if you don't, to give you a well thought-out answer will take you answering in more detail. Despite the fact that capabilities are converging in the sequencer realm, each piece of software out there has its strengths and weaknesses. These strengths and weaknesses map into how easy (or hard) it becomes to get certain things done. I understand that you're new to this area altogether and maybe just testing the waters. If that's the case, go for one of the light versions of the full-packages like Cakewalk Home Studio or Steinberg Cubase SE. These will give you basic capability for cheap until you learn enough to know what you need. Or, spend a bit more and get ACID Pro, Audition, or Cubase SL. Gotta love having choices. EDIT: Take another look at that list Patrick posted. Most of those are NOT just general sound editors. They're very capable budget-level sequencers and many on the list allow you to drop a video track on the timeline to sync your sound to. Pro Tools and Steinberg Nuendo are considered to be more "built" for film scoring, while being multi-hat wearing also... and they'll blow your budget out of the water just by looking at them. ;-) __________________ ELeven Feet Media, LLC - a nimble design & brand communications firm for growing companies http://www.elevenfeetmedia.com

August 18th, 2010, 06:46 PM	#18
Steven Davis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,065	Interesting thread I downloaded MAGIX, the glitch however is that I can't find their loops, they say they have a sound archive with 3500 sounds, but they don't show the preview. I've emailed them. I also tried to download Cubase, but I need a USB number. Good thread, I just need a large library of loops and such, I'm pretty sure I can do the mixes. Anyone know the link to the m-audio disks that were referenced on this thread? __________________ What happens if I push the 'Red' button?

August 19th, 2010, 04:08 PM	#19
David W. Jones Trustee Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Little Rock Posts: 1,383	Correct me if I'm wrong, but judging from your posts what you are looking for are pre made loop libraries rather than film scoring software where you would need to compose the actual score yourself. __________________ David W. Jones www.joneshdfilms.com

August 19th, 2010, 06:51 PM	#20
Steven Davis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,065	Maybe it doesn't exist But I was thinking there are loops out there that can be mixed to create a song, I might be crazy. Something similar to how rap is mixed, basically samples. So I'm looking for loops that I could mix to create 'romantic' music and the like. I have a musical background, unfortunately it's playing the drums and mixing audio. Thanks for the question. __________________ What happens if I push the 'Red' button?

August 20th, 2010, 02:19 PM	#22
Steven Davis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,065	Well I went to my local stores, ironically there are two major companys, Sam Ash Music and Guitar Center right side by side, and looked at CuBase. Then the guy at Sam Ash opened Sequal Start:\|http://www.steinberg.net/ and I think that's more of what I am looking for. I have a musical background, drums, but all the males in my family play piano. So I'm expecting to be able to learn basic piano then I think I can continue to the point of making my own music. It might take me a couple of years, but you have to start somewhere. __________________ What happens if I push the 'Red' button?

February 25th, 2005, 08:38 AM	#16
Dwight Flynn Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 393	Harris, as stated above I am currently doing several projects in different stages. The most pressing now is a historical Doc I am working on and now need to consider the music for. I will probably be using canned music with voiceover (meaning lowering the music and background sound to allow for clear foreground voices of narrators). I will mix it myself, but I admit this is a new area for me so there will be a learning curve. In the near future I will be using music I have recorded live and maybe mixing it with some canned music. I am taking the position of Dir of sound design more so than Foley artist, but in indie work U kinda have to be a jack of all trades (to some extent). I will be taking the advice given above by DSE and others, and I will be looking around for canned music I can use in post. Ultimately, I will be looking for a software with a reasonable learning curve (I have used editors before, such as audition, but I am new to mixers like acid), and a lot of flexibility.

August 20th, 2010, 01:28 PM	#21
Rick Reineke Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New York Posts: 2,039	Sonic Foundry's Acid was basically the first music looping software program. Lots of loops available if not creating y'own. Comes with a nice assortment of plug-ins, supports Direct-X and VST, MIDI, MIDI-TC and a video preview window or an option to send picture to an external monitor. It's also a decent multi-track DAW, but it wouldn't be my first choice for tracking sessions with multiple players. Sony Creative Software - ACID Pro Digital Audio Workstation and ACID Music Studio Loop-Based Music Creation Software

August 21st, 2010, 12:19 AM	#23
Bruce Foreman Trustee Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: San Angelo Texas Posts: 1,518	"The list" posted earlier includes SmartSound's SonicFire 3. Current version is SonicFire Pro 5.5.0.0 The "Express Tracks" edition is free with any music purchase, individual tracks may be purchased at prices that range from as low as $14.95 for their older single layer music, to $29.95 for some of their multilayer music, to $49.95 per track for their latest with vocals. With Express Tracks you indicate the timed length you need in a data field and if you've purchased the music you select (and it's on your hard drive) it is automatically composed to that length. Export it as a WAV file, drag 'n drop to the music track on your NLE timeline. The "Scoring Edition" is $99 and has a timeline of it's own. You can load in a video (low res render of the segment you need to score works best) and it plays in a small window while the music on the timeline plays so you can see before exporting how it fits. The Scoring Edition works like SmartSound Quicktracks in many NLE's used to work, you can drag left and right ends of the music segment to change the length of the music and it "recomposes" Express Tracks comes with the Scoring Edition, I have the Scoring Edition and find it is an extremely precise way to score using SmartSound music. I have NO musical background, and NO musical talent. But SonicFire Pro works well for me.

August 21st, 2010, 12:45 AM	#24
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Hi Bruce Nice to see you around still!! Yep, for me SS is still the easiest without having to know anything about music. I used to play in a band so I have fiddled with Acid but for me it's a long and painful process and just browsing thru ready-made professional tracks is way easier!! With mood mapping on the new versions film scoring should be relatively painless now and the end result will be good. I still use single layer libraries but for weddings and events they are more than adequate!! Chris